Who is giving out this online advice? Are they a worker or a salesman.

[johnfrwhipple]

Is there any truth to these rumours I'm hearing this week that many of the online posters in our pages here and there are in fact employees of the various companies selling product.

I have been trying to advise people to "Flood Test" their showers and this is getting so much heat. I have had two threads just disappear into Cyber Smoke and am getting all sorts of "Encouragment"...

Not.

What's the skinny?

I know you plumbers here flood test your work - it's code. So if the client chooses a different "Tile Setter" install system like Red Guard, HPG, Hydro Ban, Nobel or Schulter do you not feel like me these guys need to own their work?

Why deleted the threads.

I have spoken directly with Terry a few times and he has always been so helpful. My words have never "Disappeared" from this site and I have tried to keep my vents in the more DIY forums.

What do you all think?

I've been told this point of the large companies having many online writers by at least 3 people this week. I have been looking for patterns - and they are all to clear once you step back and look a little harder.

[Terry]

I haven't deleted any shower pan threads. I normally hire out my tile work, so I've been leaving those answers to others for the most part.
I can do tile, but not as fast as the pros.
I do need to have my shower completely redone though, I have a nice Moen IOdigital I would like to install.

[Wally Hays]

For you IPC Guys. If your state has adopted the 09 code YOU the plumber are responsible for flood testing the shower drain pan as part of your rough in inspection ( the inspector is going to want to see the tes done) If your tile guy does the pan (and most do) it is still your responsibility to do the test.

[jimbo]

All of the "regular" posters , to my knowledge, are current or retired plumbers. The forum does not generally act as or allow anyone so schill a product. As a moderator, I occasionally delete a post which seems to be a blatant spam advertisement. We actually usually leave that to Terry, because if it is a company which is not in competition with his business, and he feels the information will benefit the public at large, he lets it stay.


Did you get any impression that anyone here is "selling " something? Being plumbers, and in many cases cantancerous old curmudgeons, we DO have opinions. Ask us about faucets or whatever, we may tell you what we like......and we all have different ideas!

[geniescience]

He means Other Forums, not here.

This guy Whipple will whup those internet discussion forums that are shills. MANY other sites have planted false profiles everywhere inside their site. New profiles get created to make it look like Newbies starting new threads about their renovation project, and after hemming and hawing they ALL decide to use the "orange membrane" which is the sponsor's product. It doesn't correspond to reality, in the Real World, where some people decide to use all the other products, from competitors.

4 or 5 years ago I mentioned the lousy advice I got at the JB tile forum. It was not helpful to my personal project. All roads led to orangemembraneland. My willingness to explore other avenues led to some Very Weird Conduct from the JB people who came out of the woodwork and identified themselves as employees of a sponsored marketing firm ((which means they were not the "pure of heart" helpful souls they might appear to be to millions of eyeballs.)) Although there is a lot of good work being done, in general, at that site or others, still it is true that the Bias is pervasive, and their Tactics become dishonest when you aren't being a good soldier for them.

I'm sure this is not a unique thing. It could be commonplace, in many sites.

Hope this helps.

[Wally Hays]

reminds me of the Easy Water shills that pop in long enough to get the Google hits up

[johnfrwhipple]

Friend or Foe - Who's advice are you following....

I think this is an interesting discussion as I have heard that some of the forums mail out Christmas Cards - stuffed with Cash...

I find it odd in an internet world that persons offering up countless helpful suggestions have no business name- no business number - or any contact information. This make me wonder why they work so hard. Seems to me the busiest posters all post "Orange related" advice... Just saying.

I know Terry is a plumber. I have visited this web site for over 5 years. Lurking for most of those.

Networking is key. Problem solving online is easy - saves time and helps hundreds after the fact.

I just meet the newest Toto rep. She shared with me some great new product info. I told her I would like Terry to see it first.

How could I help Network with a Japanese trained Sales manager and a Seattle Master Plumber if not for the internet. Who does this help?

Toto - for sure
Terry - I hope
Me - in do time the knowledge and network base grows - this is always helpful.

Terry did she call you yet???

[Terry]

She has not called yet. Toto has always been very hands off with me.
I find out much of what I learned the hard way. Other manufacturers do a better job of keeping me informed.
I've talked to other plumbers that have toured the Atlanta factory, but I haven't. It sounded like a nice tour for the guys that took it though.

[johnfrwhipple]

Terry the japanese techs are developing some crazy stuff I'm told. Rethinking the toilet completely.

I look forward to the specs on this new toilet.

I'll dig up the sales rep info and send it to you directly.

Can I ask what I need to avoid to have my threads and words "Deleted". It seems over on the DIY network you are not to ask questions online that they think you know the answer too.

What are the rules of your forum?

[jimbo]

I lurk around a lot of fourms, not just the plumbing ones. A lot of guys with an agenda actually have their website address in their signature. The few times I have seen a post from a major manufacturer, the poster identified himself. I would be surprised....or maybe I shouldn't be surprised.....if any reputable company had anonymous shills posting on the websites. They would certainly be well advised to READ the forums, to see what professionals in the trade think about their products, and what problems customers may be having. I imagine that all the major manufacturers contract for anonymous consumer focus groups, and other such testing, to keep up with how they stack up to the competition.

[johnfrwhipple]

Why would they be hands off?

That makes no sense to me Terry.

It was advice on your site that was given to me by a client. Solid advice that differed from the Toto Script and advice I followed to nail my first Toto install. I have been a fan of your pages ever since.

I lurked and lurked and then jumped in - it has been a rocky ride and I'm still learning all the rules online.

I have heard that these large companies are paying close attention to what us handful of posters say day by day. The future of advertising is right above you. Right beside you. Pay per click...

The top advertisers should pay to advertise on your site and the others. Seems they should pay more for plumbing clicks on a plumbing site.

She has not called yet. Toto has always been very hands off with me.
I find out much of what I learned the hard way. Other manufacturers do a better job of keeping me informed.
I've talked to other plumbers that have toured the Atlanta factory, but I haven't. It sounded like a nice tour for the guys that took it though.

[K.]

It's a good question. I wouldn't be too surprised though. I used this forum and the above-mentioned tile forum exclusively for a DIY bathroom reno, including the orange membrane and the Toto toilet. In retrospect I would agree there is a distinct difference between the two forums, and while I benefited greatly from the information on both this one has more balance.