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Thread: Second stimulus

  1. #16
    DIY Senior Member SteveW's Avatar
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    Mark -
    Have you ever read "The Creature from Jekyll Island?" It details some of these same issues - how the international banking cartels have been behind wars and politics, etc. etc.

    Very sobering to read the economic rationale for allowing the Lusitania to be put in harm's way, just a sitting duck for a German torpedo, and all for $$$.

    I was a fan of Winston Churchill until learning of this.

  2. #17
    Master Plumber master plumber mark's Avatar
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    Default I will check it out..thank you

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveW View Post
    Mark -
    Have you ever read "The Creature from Jekyll Island?" It details some of these same issues - how the international banking cartels have been behind wars and politics, etc. etc.

    Very sobering to read the economic rationale for allowing the Lusitania to be put in harm's way, just a sitting duck for a German torpedo, and all for $$$.

    I was a fan of Winston Churchill until learning of this.

    Unlike the pontificateing dumbass that started this thread,

    I will take the time and make an effort to check out that book...

    I think that was ww1 we are talking about here..
    correct.... we have had to be suckered into 2 wars
    to bail ou tthe british...

    thank you...

  3. #18
    DIY Senior Member SteveW's Avatar
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    Mark -
    Thank you for the kind words! I always appreciate your wisdom and common sense, whether about plumbing or politics.

    Yes, WWI (though some probably argue it helped set the stage for our involvement in WWII too.) Basically says that the "big money" families of the world (bankers, usually) pull the strings for most of the events of the world. Really sounds cold and calculating especially when they start talking about wars starting purely for the economic advantage of these behind-the-scenes families.

    The Lusitania was a British ocean liner, and in addition to its civilian passengers, was carrying a lot of munitions that the banking families were selling to Europe for WWI. According to the book, Churchill, who was Lord of the Admiralty at the time, knowingly let it sail into waters around Ireland where over 20 ships had been torpedoed by German U-boats in previous 5 days - knowing that it would likely be hit, and thus get the US involved in the war. Can you imagine letting a passenger ship, full of civilians, deliberately be sunk?

    My wife found the book truly scary and chilling when she read it -

  4. #19
    Master Plumber master plumber mark's Avatar
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    Default My wife found the book truly scary and chilling when she read it -

    its really nothing new ,,,

    It makes you wonder what new plans and schemes are being cooked up right now...... like when they finally destroy the currency and then demand payment for our homes and goods only in gold.. which will be in very short supply.... guess who will steal most of the property in the country


  5. #20
    Senior Robin Hood Guy Ian Gills's Avatar
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    You guys win your freedom and start worring about something else.

    It's all propaganda to divert your attention from the real issues. I'll watch the movie when I find an hour out of my precious time to do so.

    In the meantime I'll just keep feeding the masters.

    Like I said before, all we need to do is regulate and tax.

    Big money bankers ruling the world?

    One thing we can all agree on is that the Founding Fathers must have got things very wrong to let that one slip.

    I, for one, would not be surprised.

    So how would you fix it Mark? Obviously the Constitution would need to go because it would have failed. Democracy next (at least America's version) because big-money leads to influence. Which leaves you with not a lot. Not even a King.

    And Americans get into wars to save themselves, never others.

    World War II: you entered very late and only after the Japanese bombed you.

    Iraq: oil

    Afghanistan: fight the terrorists there or they will come here.

    All of America's involvement is about itself, not about freedom and not about other people. So where's the bail out of the British we were so eagerly awaiting? I say to you Pearl Harbor.
    Last edited by Ian Gills; 07-19-2011 at 12:53 PM.

  6. #21
    General Engineering Contractor ballvalve's Avatar
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    The problem with America is we take over countries and then give them back without payment. All the oil in Iraq needs to go right onto US tankers for 25 years at a 20% discount for repayment.

    Our geologists gave Afghanisasssholystan a map [new, paid for by us] of the mineral wealth of the country worth about 500 billion dollars, and now the mining rights are sold to the Chinese - to build missiles to eradicate us in the near future. Every ounce of Lithium and copper should be reserved for US mining companies in perpetuity.

    We need to wake up a few dead English who knew how to fleece a country of its resources before cutting out in the name of 'freedom'

    All of our fantastic weapons are of no purpose if we cannot derive benefit from their use.

    We get shot at while building roads for Afghanistan. I wouldnt give them a 20 year old porta potty.
    Last edited by ballvalve; 07-19-2011 at 01:03 PM.

  7. #22
    Senior Robin Hood Guy Ian Gills's Avatar
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    You can't do that Ballvalve because as you taught us, the people will whoop the occupier's behind.

    A few poor, brave American servicemen get killed every week in Afghanistan and look at the outpouring of public grief here. And that's in countries where the foreign force is welcomed, or at least tolerated, by the local population.

    Occupy and fleece and America's dead would be coming back in greater numbers and for years.

    Americans would not have the stomach for that. They are simply not brave enough to invest those kinds of numbers of young lives.

    In Africa, you've pulled out entirely over the loss of a handful of young men. I hardly see you tolerating thousands of dead in an occupation for oil.

    I just watched some of the Oz film. One of its recommendations is that banks only be allowed to lend what they collect in deposits. The whole thing is madness. If that were the case, banks would not exist and you and I would not own a home.

    Mark wants a world of no debt. Sounds a lot like the Bible to me. But also a world in which everyone is left poor and backward.

    Lending is good. It just needs to be properly regulated which requires a large Federal Government and one that does its job properly.
    Last edited by Ian Gills; 07-19-2011 at 01:10 PM.

  8. #23
    Master Plumber master plumber mark's Avatar
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    Default stop evadeing

    Why dont you just watch the video and stop evadeing

    untill you get an idea, or comcept of what the big picture really looks like there is no reason to continue this discussion

    when you have done this, then please take a stand on what
    you think about this fellows opinoin ......



  9. #24
    Senior Robin Hood Guy Ian Gills's Avatar
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    Well, that was the waste of an hour. Let me save others some time.

    The documentary draws parallels with the classic children novel The Wizard of Oz written depicting the story hidden in symbolism about monetary reform and the economic scenario during the late 19th century. The yellow brick road (gold standard), the Scarecrow (farmers), the Tin Man (industrial workers), the Wicked Witch of the West (Cleveland banker J.D. Rockefeller) and the Wicked Witch of the East (NY banker J.P.Morgan), the Emerald City of Oz (greenback money), the illusory power of the Wizard in the capitol city (who monopolized power through deceit), even Dorothy’s silver slippers (changed to ruby slippers for the color movie version -symbols of the belief that adding silver coin to gold coin would provide much needed money to a depression-strapped, 1890s America). Oz is a virtual forest of monetary reform symbolism.

    It asserts that wealth is slowly being drawn into the hands of a small banking elite at the expense of the general population.

    I say what's the big deal? Wake up call. That's called the American dream. You rejected the alternative - socialism - elements of which I still argue for on this very corner.

    The Money Masters argues that bankers have intentionally caused a number of significant events, including John F. Kennedy's assassination, Abraham Lincoln's assassination, the War of 1812, the Battle of Waterloo, the American Civil War, the Russian Revolution, the Great Depression, and the crucifixion of Jesus (who drove out the "money changers" in all four Gospels). So all Americans have been brainwashed by bankers.

    Raise the Red Flag!

    I must admit, it's refreshing to see some commies among you.

    Although even I'm not that far "left of center".
    Last edited by Ian Gills; 07-19-2011 at 04:29 PM.

  10. #25
    General Engineering Contractor ballvalve's Avatar
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    Anyone wants to play in this silly game should well educate themselves about the silver and gold standard that kept countries in check up to about 1971.

    Now its just a big ponzi scheme.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nixon_Shock

  11. #26
    General Engineering Contractor ballvalve's Avatar
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    Anyone wants to play in this silly game should well educate themselves about the silver and gold standard that kept countries in check up to about 1971.

    Now its just a big ponzi scheme.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nixon_Shock

  12. #27
    Master Plumber master plumber mark's Avatar
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    Default talking to cows in a pasture

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Gills View Post
    Well, that was the waste of an hour. Let me save others some time.

    The documentary draws parallels with the classic children novel The Wizard of Oz written depicting the story hidden in symbolism about monetary reform and the economic scenario during the late 19th century. The yellow brick road (gold standard), the Scarecrow (farmers), the Tin Man (industrial workers), the Wicked Witch of the West (Cleveland banker J.D. Rockefeller) and the Wicked Witch of the East (NY banker J.P.Morgan), the Emerald City of Oz (greenback money), the illusory power of the Wizard in the capitol city (who monopolized power through deceit), even Dorothy’s silver slippers (changed to ruby slippers for the color movie version -symbols of the belief that adding silver coin to gold coin would provide much needed money to a depression-strapped, 1890s America). Oz is a virtual forest of monetary reform symbolism.

    It asserts that wealth is slowly being drawn into the hands of a small banking elite at the expense of the general population.

    I say what's the big deal? Wake up call. That's called the American dream. You rejected the alternative - socialism - elements of which I still argue for on this very corner.

    The Money Masters argues that bankers have intentionally caused a number of significant events, including John F. Kennedy's assassination, Abraham Lincoln's assassination, the War of 1812, the Battle of Waterloo, the American Civil War, the Russian Revolution, the Great Depression, and the crucifixion of Jesus (who drove out the "money changers" in all four Gospels). So all Americans have been brainwashed by bankers.

    Raise the Red Flag!

    I must admit, it's refreshing to see some commies among you.

    Although even I'm not that far "left of center".



    If you actually watched this video sober, then good for you..

    here area few quiz questions for you to see if you understood what you watched,, from your post above I think it all went over your little pumpkin head......

    did you understood the idea of the system of banking presently in
    south dakota,,, fractional reserve lending by the state ?????

    did you understand the idea of printing money interest free to only be done by the state chartered bank instead of printed by the.... private for profit banking interset (incurring debt) ......
    then useing fractionial reserve banking for the state to re-plenishtheir coffers???



    do you see why the gold standard is a way to make slaves out of the common man and make the elite ul-tra rich ....???

    and what is a .....plutrocasy....like they had in Rome???



    do you even have a clue what the video was talking about???

  13. #28
    Senior Robin Hood Guy Ian Gills's Avatar
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    Mark, I do not see what your problem is with commercial Banks "creating" money.

    They have always done this. The fact of the matter is that when you deposit momey in a Bank they know that you won't demand the lot in cash. It's the same with loans. So, from a small amount of cash reserves they can lend a lot more...what you call fractional reserves. It has always been this way. If it were not, Banks would not make any money and you and I would not be able to secure loans for our homes and cars because the system would soon run out of cash. Limiting loans to the amount of cash in circulation is nonsense. Think about it.

    What the system needs is regulation. We need to ensure that Banks maintain adequate liquidity on the loans they issue so there is not a banking crisis. In other words, for every x dollars they have in deposits they should only be able to issue x times y in loans.

    In your crazy world, y would equal one! And I would not have a home!

    This sort of thing is just propoganda for those people (mostly Americans) who need excuses and conspiracy theories for things that clearly need Government intervention and regulation. It's time to accept that big Government is good. And that your daddy was wrong.

  14. #29
    DIY Senior Member LOTW's Avatar
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    Lending is good. It just needs to be properly regulated which requires a large Federal Government and one that does its job properly.[/QUOTE]

    Actually, what Lending needs is for the lenders to know that they will not be bailed out if they make a bad loan. The biggest and longest term negative consequence of the 2007-09 financial decline will be the reinforcement in bankers' minds that the government will help them if their loans are not repaid. Lending should not be a social welfare program and if you cannot afford a loan you should not get it. And the lender should eat the loss if its not repaid. The Community Reinvestment Act, Fannie Mae's no money down lending programs, and other social programs are changing banks into welfare providers and they are making loans based upon social criteria and not business sense.


    What needs more oversight and regulation is the non-bank finnacial sector. That Bernie Madoff could perpetrate his Ponzi Scheme without trading any stocks and without getting caught for more than ten years is astounding. And it is the secondary mortgage market which was created by the non-lending industry which gave a bank the ability to make a bad mortgage but yet sell this mortgage on the secondary mortgage for a lucrative profit and without risk to itself.

  15. #30
    Master Plumber master plumber mark's Avatar
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    Cool watch the movie again

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Gills View Post
    Mark, I do not see what your problem is with commercial Banks "creating" money.

    They have always done this. The fact of the matter is that when you deposit momey in a Bank they know that you won't demand the lot in cash. It's the same with loans. So, from a small amount of cash reserves they can lend a lot more...what you call fractional reserves. It has always been this way. If it were not, Banks would not make any money and you and I would not be able to secure loans for our homes and cars because the system would soon run out of cash. Limiting loans to the amount of cash in circulation is nonsense. Think about it.

    What the system needs is regulation. We need to ensure that Banks maintain adequate liquidity on the loans they issue so there is not a banking crisis. In other words, for every x dollars they have in deposits they should only be able to issue x times y in loans.

    In your crazy world, y would equal one! And I would not have a home!

    This sort of thing is just propoganda for those people (mostly Americans) who need excuses and conspiracy theories for things that clearly need Government intervention and regulation. It's time to accept that big Government is good. And that your daddy was wrong.

    Please watch the last 15 minutes of the video again...
    and try to grasp this concept.....

    remember, the federal reserve is a for profit privately held
    bank, it is not part of any government ..it is an entity unto itself..
    the printing of money and the interest rates are controlled by
    this private entity for their own profit, the printing of money
    out of thin air is not done by our government

    the government has been tricked and duped into buying money
    at interest that this private entity prints out of thin air and sells it to us

    ..... actually to whom do we owe this interest to.....ourselves??


    our govenrmnet goes into debt to international bankers for something
    that they could print up themselves at no interest or debt to anyone


    as the bank in south dakota does, state chartered banks could be
    created and they could be doing the fractional reserve banking
    and the huge profits that are created would be used for the good
    of the state and social services for the state......
    NOT for the selfish profit of greedy private bankers...

    and their would be no debt and interest created and owed to these parasites


    just becasue something has been done a certain way for a long time,and we
    have all been duped into thinking the world will end if it were to change,
    that does not make it the best way to do something for the betterment of mankind,,,,
    ,,''

    IAN can you grasp this concept??




    also , when you babble about more regualtion.. who regulates whom.
    and who do you think would be appointed to regulate theves??
    as the movie as already stated, most congresmen are beholding to
    the bankers and will bow to their interests...and do their bidding.....

    so this is basically a case of the fox guarding the hen house......

    like henry ford stateed in the video...
    "if people actually understood our system of banking they would rise up in revolt tomorrow"

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