Very Hard Water and High Iron

**williamsjan** · 08-24-2010, 11:33 AM

HI there just wanted to get some other peoples opinions. We just built a new house and our new well has pretty bad water. I have had it tested 3 times by a local guy, Culligan and Kinetico.

The Hardness is 70 gpg
Clear Iron is 12 ppm
pH is 6.9
TDS is 630 ppm

All 3 companies wanted to install and iron filter and then a twin tank system and a reverse osmosis under my kitchen sink. And all three quotes were between 5 and 6 thousand dollars.

So I started to do some reseach and I have been finding good things out about Fleck. Would it be ok to purchase a green sand filter and their Fleck 9000 Twin tank system and have my husband install it. Instead of paying Culligan or Kinetico

Our well is about 180 feet deep and we are getting around 6 gpm.

Thanks for your time

**Akpsdvan** · 08-24-2010, 12:03 PM

The 6gpm from the well is going to be the challenge...
1 cubic foot of Greensand will do a service flow of 2.5 gpm while needing 5 gpm for the back wash.. and only work up to 8ppm of Iron.

Now one Idea might be to use calcite to correct the ph and get some of the iron to fall out of the water, thus lowering the iron some , say from the 12 to maybe 8ppm,, now while it would add a grain or two to the hardness that would be easier to deal with.

Some thing else that will need to be looked at is ROOM for the equipment.. it is not going to be small by any means.. there will need to be a number of units.. and again that 6gpm from the well is going to be a large challenge.

If you have room for say a 500 gallon tank that would be of great help.

**big dripper** · 08-24-2010, 12:12 PM

Certainly that would be a cheaper way to go. You have extremely difficult water. Taking on that challenge can be a task if he doesn't know what he is doing. Going with a professional may cost more but they will be responsible, initially at least, for your water production.

Where in Indiana are you? I never heard of water that hard there.
Culligan uses the Fleck twin in thier line up. Their iron filter was probably their Super S series using chlorine and air without a retention tank. What size softener did they recommend?

Kinetico has a greensand in their line up, too. But I haven't heard of them using it in a long time. I don't like greensand filters because they become a real mess after a while and the PotPerm is a poison and should handled with care. Correct backwashing flow rate is essential and must be figured into the system. At 6gpm you would certainly need to be careful what equipment you install. What models did they recommend?

How would you calculate the iron for total calculated hardness? Certainly, the different companies had different results with water testing, right? Furthermore, your test result numbers don't add up. There is an error somewhere-- a pretty big one, in fact. Recheck your results.

If there were a choice between Culligan and Kinetico, which sounded more beneficial?

**williamsjan** · 08-24-2010, 12:19 PM

on one of the websites it said that the 1 cubic ft greensand will take out up to 15 ppm.
we have room but i dont think we have room for a 500 gallon tank!

**williamsjan** · 08-24-2010, 12:50 PM

Those were the results Culligan just gave me yesterday. The water filter that they wanted me to buy was just the Gold Series one. They recommended the Culligan Soft minder Twin Water Softener.

None of the companies even asked how many gpm we were getting unless they figured it out themselves.

**jadnashua** · 08-24-2010, 01:11 PM

A big tank in the house may not be possible, but I think it could be burried, so keep that in mind. 6-GPM won't be great without some storage, and a typical bladder tank may not be enough. You can easily use 6gpm to fill a tub, and that would leave nothing else for the rest of the house. If you could inject air into that big tank, you'd get some of the iron to oxidize and precipitate out before you have to deal with it for the other stuff. That would require periodic cleaning of the tank as the sludge would build up. how often, I don't know. It might be annually, longer, or shorter. One of the pros would probably be able to tell you.

**big dripper** · 08-24-2010, 03:09 PM

Originally Posted by williamsjan

on one of the websites it said that the 1 cubic ft greensand will take out up to 15 ppm.
we have room but i dont think we have room for a 500 gallon tank!

What would the 500-gallon tank be used for? Not sure what that involves. We're not talking whole house RO here. Their Gold Series is their middle-of-road equipment. But understanding the size would be very important to tell weather it is adequate. Not sure where you are getting the 15 gpm for the greensand unit. Service, depending on the size, would around 5-7 gpm. It is very important that you get accurate results and equipment specifications or you will be very disappointed.

**jadnashua** · 08-24-2010, 05:35 PM

If you have a well that doesn't produce a great flow, you can use it to pump into a reservoir (the 500-gallon tank - pick your backup size). Then, use a second pump to pressurize the house from there at whatever flow-rate you want. The large tank could be air injected, which would cause some of the iron to precipitate out and be potentially pre-treated, minimizing the in-house equipment required.

It could also be a big help if you don't have a fire hydrant nearby, to aid the firefighters, should that ever become necessary...it might lower your fire insurance costs.

**Akpsdvan** · 08-24-2010, 06:55 PM

Question.

Is the 6gpm from the well truely going to meet the needs of the house or is it going to fall short?

**Bob999** · 08-28-2010, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by jimtum

Your well should be producing 10 gpm, the industry standard for submersible pumps is 10gpm.

There is no industry standard size or output for submersible pumps. Submersible pumps come with different size motors and different number of stages in addition to having different diameters for various diameter wells. The output of the pump is primarily a function of the motor size (HP), number of stages, the lift or head, and the size of the piping.

**big dripper** · 08-28-2010, 01:04 PM

I would recommend a twin tank (duplex) system with at least 2.25 cuft in each tank (54x13). There is a strong misconception that the ONLY time you need a twin tank is when water is used 24/7. If you get a single tank system, say 3 cuft (14x54) and it backwashes with say, 160 gallons of water, that is a 160 gallons of 12ppm iron and 70 gpg (11,200 grains) cleaning your system. That is some pretty nasty backwashing water! The Fleck 9100 would be a decent choice. Your resins will last longer and less likely to get hardness/iron bleedthough.

When water gets that nasty, the chances of regenerating too early (wasting salt and water) or too late (untreated weater coming through) increase proportionately when using simplex systems. Moreover, with many single tank system the brine fill will also be hard with 'tons' of iron in it. Ever look at the bottom of one of those tanks after a year or two? Grundgy.

**jimtum** · 08-29-2010, 04:15 PM

bob999 you are correct I mis-worded, most residential are 10gpm pumps, however there are other flow rates depending on many factors as well as customer preference, my bad.