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Thread: Mid Atlantic Water acid neutralizer

  1. #1
    DIY Junior Member skel's Avatar
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    Default Mid Atlantic Water acid neutralizer

    Moved into older home with old culligan system ,rep told us we need possibly whole new system mim. $1700 or a rebed doubtful on rebed .Is the mid atlantic acid neutralizer worth the money$399?We already purchased a water boss softern,but were told cant hook up until we get the acid under control (6.0).

  2. #2

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    Culligan (?) told you that you CAN"T hook up a softener until the AC filter is in. I don't see why that would be a requirement. It is recommended, yes, but not required.

    What is your hardness? Any iron? Other test results? The MidAtlantic system: does that include one or two upflow tanks? At that price, my guess would be one. If installed, and depending on the media actually applied, that would be a great price. But as with all great (read: CHEAP) prices, there are many times serious drawbacks or shortcomings, either immediately effects or in future service and repair/replacement costs.

    The low pH will have little effect on the softener either to its benefit or detriment. However, once that AC filter is installed, a slight rise in hardness will occur and the softener will need some adjustment. I am guessing your source water hardness is between 2-6 grains per gallon. Be sure to check carefully for iron.

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    AAW jimtum's Avatar
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    Big Dripper is correct. PH levels are really only a concern if you are trying to oxidize iron or sulphur. PH has nothing to do with a water softener and you probably don't need a new softener or a rebed. I would recommend using some resup, food grade phosphoric acid that you can buy online and put a cup or two into your brine tank and that should do a good job of cleaning the resin media.

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    DIY Senior Member Bob999's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimtum View Post
    Big Dripper is correct. PH levels are really only a concern if you are trying to oxidize iron or sulphur. PH has nothing to do with a water softener and you probably don't need a new softener or a rebed. I would recommend using some resup, food grade phosphoric acid that you can buy online and put a cup or two into your brine tank and that should do a good job of cleaning the resin media.
    I suggest you follow the label directions on any chemicals used. The advice above is likely substantially more than should be used--ResUp typically is used at a max rate of 4oz per cubic foot of resin.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimtum View Post
    Big Dripper is correct. PH levels are really only a concern if you are trying to oxidize iron or sulphur. PH has nothing to do with a water softener and you probably don't need a new softener or a rebed. I would recommend using some resup, food grade phosphoric acid that you can buy online and put a cup or two into your brine tank and that should do a good job of cleaning the resin media.
    Thanks, my experience with low pH problems lie mostly with corrosion problems with piping and plumbing fixtures. It amazes me how many plumbers still install copper and brass materials on well-know low pH waters. Evidence is mostly commonly found on bluish shower stalls and pitted drains, etc., eventually, pinhole leaks develop causing very serious problems.
    Last edited by big dripper; 08-28-2010 at 04:00 PM.

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    In the Trades Wally Hays's Avatar
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    Yea, them plumbers is a pretty ignorant lot
    Perception is 3/4 of reality

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wally Hays View Post
    Yea, them plumbers is a pretty ignorant lot
    I don't mean to make light of that or any profession...but the question remains as to why? I know you didn't consider what I said to be a slam but my empuzzlement is one of logic, experience, and plain science. There are areas of this counrty where wide expanses have well water with extremely low pH and yet, we find brand new homes with all copper plumbing. And in today's world with a myriad of alternatives, one begs to wonder why this perpetuates.

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    In the Trades Wally Hays's Avatar
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    How many new houses are you finding that are piped in copper? Just about everyone is using either PX or CPVC However, if the PH is low enough to cause problems with copper piping then it should be treated.
    Perception is 3/4 of reality

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    AAW jimtum's Avatar
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    Big Dripper perhaps the well is either drilled after the plumbing is in or no one thinks about testing the water to determine the ph beofre plumbing is started, then there is the bid that the plumber put in before it all began anyway. If you treat water for a living then you know that there are way too many variables to get this all figured out, so I guess we have to go with the flow, no pun intended.

  10. #10
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wally Hays View Post
    How many new houses are you finding that are piped in copper? Just about everyone is using either PX or CPVC However, if the PH is low enough to cause problems with copper piping then it should be treated.
    As you know, copper is the number one choice for new construction and a lot of remodeling.

    I agree that acidic water should be treated but, you didn't answer the question as to why plumbers install copper on acidic water, or why the plumbers don't test for acidic and other things that damage copper.

    Dipper, trust me, he took offense at your statement which he sees as anti plumber (although you are right). He's done it to me many times. I say most plumbers concider themselves as taking care of the health of the world, but don't give a damn about the water quality exiting the water pipes they install. Well, unless the material is not copper, then they howl.
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  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimtum View Post
    Big Dripper perhaps the well is either drilled after the plumbing is in or no one thinks about testing the water to determine the ph beofre plumbing is started, then there is the bid that the plumber put in before it all began anyway. If you treat water for a living then you know that there are way too many variables to get this all figured out, so I guess we have to go with the flow, no pun intended.
    Acidic waters are often endemic and can cover rather large areas; the problems are most often well known and typical. Yes, there are many variables in water treatment. I wasn't referring to 'a' well but rather what I found common in areas where nearly all houses need to treat waters for low, sometimes extremely low, pH.

    Hadn't thought about 'bids' on construction sites. I would imagine a copper bid would be more expensive than a CPVC or pex bid.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Slusser View Post
    As you know, copper is the number one choice for new construction and a lot of remodeling.

    I agree that acidic water should be treated but, you didn't answer the question as to why plumbers install copper on acidic water, or why the plumbers don't test for acidic and other things that damage copper.

    Dipper, trust me, he took offense at your statement which he sees as anti plumber (although you are right). He's done it to me many times. I say most plumbers concider themselves as taking care of the health of the world , but don't give a damn about the water quality exiting the water pipes they install. Well, unless the material is not copper, then they howl.
    I didn't see where he took any great offense. He just asked a question.

    I didn't ask him "why plumbers....?" I just made a observation. I wasn't aware that there was an opinion that "plumbers consider themselves as taking care of the health of the world," as you stated. I would like to hear more on this opinion. I am not following you on what makes a plumber 'howl' if the material is not copper. So, if it is not copper, then they do care about water quality? I don't get the logic, there.

  13. #13
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big dripper View Post
    I didn't see where he took any great offense. He just asked a question.

    I didn't ask him "why plumbers....?" I just made a observation. I wasn't aware that there was an opinion that "plumbers consider themselves as taking care of the health of the world," as you stated. I would like to hear more on this opinion. I am not following you on what makes a plumber 'howl' if the material is not copper. So, if it is not copper, then they do care about water quality? I don't get the logic, there.
    Actually in his first reply, post #6 he said: Yea, them plumbers is a pretty ignorant lot

    That was in response to your statment of: It amazes me how many plumbers still install copper and brass materials on well-know low pH waters.

    Notice that up until now he hasn't said anything else about the subject, he actually changed the subject by questioning you about how many new houses have copper and mentions that most are going to PEX and CPVC.

    Over the last 14 yrs that I have been answering posts on the internet and in Google Groups I have seen many plumbers claim that they protect the health of the world. IIRC I have seen Wally Hays or one of his other handles make the claim.

    I have also seen many plumbers online and heard others in plumbing supply houses say that copper is the best water line material and that they would not use anything else; and they go on to mention problems with PB and PEX as proof of their decision to only use copper. They also go on about DIYers taking food off their table by doing their own plumbing with PEX etc. or about lost income when they install plastic because it takes so little time. And then some of those quote PEX for the same price or slightly lower than copper.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
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    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  14. #14

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    I'm not really into all that "he said, she said" routine, but thank you for your thoughts. If he wants to address me with concerns and doubts, I am sure he can speak for himeself. I would rather focus on the original poster's question.

  15. #15
    In the Trades Wally Hays's Avatar
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    And speak... I shall.

    Yea, I did take a little offense to that bit but, if you have followed many diy forums you may have noticed that plumbers get a pretty bad rap most of the time. Either we are accused of raping the public or gross ignorance. I don't blame you, or anyone else for that attitude. Lord knows there are far too many unscrupulous and even ignorant plumbers out there but I suspect the same can be said of most of the trades. There's good and bad, smart and stupid enough to go around. Mr Slussers seems to take great joy in any opportunity that he can find to dismiss the plumbing profession as nothing more than a mob of overpaid wrench jockies while totally ignoring the years of schooling and training necessary to get a plumbing license. Perhaps he had a bad plumbing experience in his youth. I see no reason to bash any trade, licensed or unlicensed, especially a trade that has done so much to effect the health and safety of the general public. Even the AMA has acknowledged that modern plumbing practices are responsible for saving more lives than all the doctors and hospitals in the world. Perhaps a little vacation spent in some stink hole in South America where people still regularly get sick from dysentery, cholera, diphtheria and all those other nasty diseases that sicken and kill so many that are still living in unsanitary squalid conditions. So in the end, yea, I am a little sensitive about my trade. It has been very good to me over the years and I am proud of the work that I and the men that have worked for me over the years have done. So...... Everybody chill out

    And, apologies to the OP for the deviation here. I would have PM'd this to Dripper but we can't do that anymore.
    Last edited by Wally Hays; 08-30-2010 at 04:48 PM.
    Perception is 3/4 of reality

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