Water softener clogging pipes?????

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ds

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Water softener was installed about 4 years ago. No problems until a week ago. Owner said salt level ran out completely and owner added Morton's pellets (as recommended by a sticker on the lid of the softener). Owner had previously used Morton's crystals on occasion. Shortly after replentishing the salt level, owner began having significant salt and black/brown debris in water lines. The salt and debris has significantly clogged any screens on faucets, washers, etc. I have bypassed the water softener temporarily, but the problem seems to continue. Even though the softener has been bypassed for a week, salt/debris continues to clog the faucet filters, etc. I am suspicious that debris and salt crystals are in the hot water tank as well. Any suggestions? Anyone run in to this in the past? I am at a loss as to what to do next.
 

big dripper

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Your softener would have had to fail pretty horribly to get enough salt in your lines to clog the plumbing. Besides the salt would eventually dissolve. However, if it is calcium that is appearing, then yes, eventually it would restrict water flow. use a moist towel and soak the scale build up. If it is removed by water then it may be salt. If you need vineger, then it is probalby calcium (hardness) that is building up.

Morton is a fairly clean salt so I can't imagine that is from the salt. There are some 'dirty' salts out there. What kind of softener do you have? Most softeners use untreated water the regenerate and this may have decreased the effectiveness of the softener over years of use.

Water softener was installed about 4 years ago. No problems until a week ago. Owner said salt level ran out completely and owner added Morton's pellets (as recommended by a sticker on the lid of the softener). Owner had previously used Morton's crystals on occasion. Shortly after replentishing the salt level, owner began having significant salt and black/brown debris in water lines. The salt and debris has significantly clogged any screens on faucets, washers, etc. I have bypassed the water softener temporarily, but the problem seems to continue. Even though the softener has been bypassed for a week, salt/debris continues to clog the faucet filters, etc. I am suspicious that debris and salt crystals are in the hot water tank as well. Any suggestions? Anyone run in to this in the past? I am at a loss as to what to do next.
 

jimtum

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I have never seen salt in the screens and as someone said salt would dissolve, I have seen screens get plugged when the softened water begins to eat at the hard water deposits in the pipes and then they will plug the screens, you can remove them and then sooner or later the hard water deposits will be gone, I would suggest to leave the softener in service and allow it to do its job. Sometimes the home owner will not tell the full story as far as when was the last time salt was added. You may want to find out how hard their water is and what size softener they have, that may also be a problem and you may need to adjust the softener.
 

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This is another dated but very relevant thread that I am rekindling based on a problem I have observed recently.

Here's the situation (at brother 's place) - after a drop in water pressure in faucets of his home, he was told that the resin beads inside his 10 year old softener were failing and getting into his pipes. This seems real weird to me but this is what he was told. I am not sure what his plumber did, but ultimately they replaced the old water softener. His toilets were messed up and the plumber told him they all needed to be changed. He also wound up replacing a few of his faucets. After all this - he still has intermittent water pressure issues and occasional debris coming out of his faucets (the kids say they think it is salt but arent sure).

I know this is not a lot to go on, but any thoughts on how he should approach the diagnosis here? Not sure he is getting great plumbing advice.

Separate but related - but is it normal for resin beads to break off and get into the house pipes ? This has gotten me thinking about my current softener which is about 7 years old. Not sure if my brother's incident is a freak incident with his softener, or whether this is a normal failure of an old water softener. If the latter, I want to do everything possible to avoid his fate and proactively replace or bypass the softener before things get to this point.
 

ditttohead

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Not a lot to go n so I will generalize. Salt is highly soluble and will not get into the plumbing and clog it, the physics simply aren't there. Resin beads will definitely go bad over time, this is normal and is very common in cheaper poorly built units. Good quality resin can last decades, cheap resin can last months... too many variables to say, but resin will break down over time and cause pressure drops. Resin getting out of the system is almost always caused by the unit being plumbed in backwards or a failed bottom screen. What kind of softener do you have? If it is a big box store or an online company unit, then 7 years... you are probably on borrowed time. If it is a properly built unit, it is just getting started on it's life. A high end softener can easily last 20+ years with a little maintenance.
 

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This is another dated but very relevant thread that I am rekindling based on a problem I have observed recently.

Here's the situation (at brother 's place) - after a drop in water pressure in faucets of his home, he was told that the resin beads inside his 10 year old softener were failing and getting into his pipes. This seems real weird to me but this is what he was told. I am not sure what his plumber did, but ultimately they replaced the old water softener. His toilets were messed up and the plumber told him they all needed to be changed. He also wound up replacing a few of his faucets. After all this - he still has intermittent water pressure issues and occasional debris coming out of his faucets (the kids say they think it is salt but arent sure).

I know this is not a lot to go on, but any thoughts on how he should approach the diagnosis here? Not sure he is getting great plumbing advice.

Separate but related - but is it normal for resin beads to break off and get into the house pipes ? This has gotten me thinking about my current softener which is about 7 years old. Not sure if my brother's incident is a freak incident with his softener, or whether this is a normal failure of an old water softener. If the latter, I want to do everything possible to avoid his fate and proactively replace or bypass the softener before things get to this point.
I would hope that you would be more into troubleshooting. In troubleshooting pressure drops, one or more pressure gauges are called for. A garden hose connector pressure gauge is under $20, and often a lot under. Connect to an outside spigot. Connect to the drain for the water heater.
A pipe with no flow will have no pressure drop.

Do you see debris in faucet aerators?
Does putting the softener into bypass reduce pressure drops a lot?
Look for a forgotten cartridge filter that needs a new cartridge.
 

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These types of concerns are why buying water treatment equipment online is so frequently advised against on this forum. In addition to too many that install low quality components which are prone to failure such as the bottom screen Ditttohead mentioned, many online dealers will also omit bedding gravel, all so they can undercut the price of the next online dealer. Bedding gravel in addition to other benefits, can provide a barrier against resin loss if there should ever be a failure of the bottom screen.

If concerned softener resin will escape and contaminate your home's plumbing system, installation of a quality high capacity sediment cartridge filter directly following the softener, will prevent any potential lost resin from migrating further.
 
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Duder

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Not a lot to go n so I will generalize. Salt is highly soluble and will not get into the plumbing and clog it, the physics simply aren't there. Resin beads will definitely go bad over time, this is normal and is very common in cheaper poorly built units. Good quality resin can last decades, cheap resin can last months... too many variables to say, but resin will break down over time and cause pressure drops. Resin getting out of the system is almost always caused by the unit being plumbed in backwards or a failed bottom screen. What kind of softener do you have? If it is a big box store or an online company unit, then 7 years... you are probably on borrowed time. If it is a properly built unit, it is just getting started on it's life. A high end softener can easily last 20+ years with a little maintenance.

Thanks for the quick reply. I have a Kenmore Elite Hybrid Water Softener P#7332880. In the manual it describes this functionality

"The ultra cleaning feature provides added protection for water using appliances by reducing the chance of larger particles entering the various product valves and screens"

Based on this description do you think that I am good even if resin breaks off? Cleansing screen comes right after the resin tank output....Softener is 7 years old and seems to work fine.
 

Duder

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I would hope that you would be more into troubleshooting. In troubleshooting pressure drops, one or more pressure gauges are called for. A garden hose connector pressure gauge is under $20, and often a lot under. Connect to an outside spigot. Connect to the drain for the water heater.
A pipe with no flow will have no pressure drop.

Do you see debris in faucet aerators?
Does putting the softener into bypass reduce pressure drops a lot?
Look for a forgotten cartridge filter that needs a new cartridge.

Great advice. Starting with bypass seems like a good bet - but I think he has sediment in the pipes based on what the kids say. If sediment is coming out of the shower heads that would not be salt, it would be resin or calcium right?
 

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If sediment is coming out of the shower heads that would not be salt, it would be resin or calcium right?
It would not be salt. What color is this sediment? Anything in the aerator screens?

I would flush the WH, and monitor the solids that come out through the hose under pressure.
 

Duder

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Is this system on City water with Chlorine?
Yes - both brother and I are on the same city source. Have measured Chlorine ppm and it's in the normal range, but our city water has enough minerals in it that a softener is pretty much required where we are at (Jacksonville FL area)
 

Bannerman

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Constant Chlorine exposure will reduce the longevity of any softener resin, but resin with 10% crosslinking will better tolerate constant chlorine exposure compared to standard 8% crosslinked resin. Low quality resin often has less than 8% crosslinking which is why Ditttohead said cheap resin can last only months.

Failed resin will most commonly result in low water flow through the softener. As mentioned, a softener connected in reverse or a failed lower basket are the usual reasons for resin to escape into the plumbing system.
 
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Sacman

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This happened to me also a while back (3 or 4 years ago):

Water pressure dropped. I thought city was working on water lines. Checked with neighbors and they said no. Called the water company and they told me this was most likely due to water softener failing. Resin leaking enter home. That explained the brown stuff at the bottom of the toilet with each flush. "I thought it was something else".

Solution to fix (I'm not a plumber):
Set Water softener to by pass and run the whole whose to flush out any resin sitting in pipes. You run the water for I think 5 or 10 min. You first want to remove the filters/screen from faucets and remove shower heads (not sure I did this). You may want to flush your water heater also but I dont know if a water softener goes through this. I heard conflicting stories on this... Like your water heater failed because you have a water softener which caused the sacrificial anode rod to fail. And hot water does not get softened.

So this helped with cleaning out the lines. To get the water softener back to work I could either replace the resin or buy another unit. I bought another unit. Hope this helps.

I'm here to figure out if I can drain a water softener into a clean out on the outside of my home.



Here's the situation (at brother 's place) - after a drop in water pressure in faucets of his home, he was told that the resin beads inside his 10 year old softener were failing and getting into his pipes. This seems real weird to me but this is what he was told. I am not sure what his plumber did, but ultimately they replaced the old water softener. His toilets were messed up and the plumber told him they all needed to be changed. He also wound up replacing a few of his faucets. After all this - he still has intermittent water pressure issues and occasional debris coming out of his faucets (the kids say they think it is salt but arent sure).

I know this is not a lot to go on, but any thoughts on how he should approach the diagnosis here? Not sure he is getting great plumbing advice.

Separate but related - but is it normal for resin beads to break off and get into the house pipes ? This has gotten me thinking about my current softener which is about 7 years old. Not sure if my brother's incident is a freak incident with his softener, or whether this is a normal failure of an old water softener. If the latter, I want to do everything possible to avoid his fate and proactively replace or bypass the softener before things get to this point.[/QUOTE]
 

Reach4

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Score one for putting a cartridge filter after a softener.
 

ditttohead

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It is not normal for resin to get into the house except when people buy really cheap softeners typically from online or big box store units. The most common cause of resin getting out of a decent softener is that it is plumbed in backwards. Cheap softeners, we see broken bottom screens all the time.
upload_2021-1-11_9-15-45.png
 

Sacman

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That was exactly the case. I bought from big box store but it did last about 10 years. The bottom screen is what I believe broke. Thanks!
 
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