(206) 949-5683, Top Rated Plumber, Seattle
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 28

Thread: Submersible Pump stops - works again after power disconnected

  1. #1
    DIY Junior Member Blitzen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    14

    Default Submersible Pump stops - works again after power disconnected

    What a great forum!
    I have looked through the old and the new forum for an answer and did not find one that quite fit my problem.
    The specs on my well are:
    Goulds
    2 HP
    Well:
    138 ft
    14.5 Gal. Per Minute
    13 ft drawdown after 4 hours
    300 feet of 1.5 inch pipe to pressure tank.
    10 gauge wire to the pump from the tank
    Dug in 2003.

    The problem is that after using 50 gallons of water or so my well pump will suddenly shut off. I will then disconnect the connections by way of the pressure switch, count to 15 and reconnect and water starts flowing again. When this starts to happen I get less and less water before the pump cuts out.

    -I have tested the voltage at the pressure switch and there is current going to the pump.

    -I have pressured up the system to 50psi and turned off the electrical and the output pipe from the pressure tank for a week at a time and it is still at 50 when I return so there seems to be no leak down from the pressure tank.

    - I have replaced pressure switches

    Is the pump over heating?
    Is it having to push too much water through the 1.5 pipe to far for the pressure tank?


    Thanks for any ideas!
    Blitzen

  2. #2
    Moderator valveman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Lubbock, Texas
    Posts
    4,156

    Default

    Try just waiting a minute or two and see if it doesn’t come on by itself. I think the overload in your motor is tripping, and it will reset itself in a few without disconnecting the pressure switch. If this is the case you probably need a new motor. You need to make sure that the capacitors and relay in the control box are still good, but the average number of cycles a submersible can survive takes about 7 years. You said installed 03 right?

  3. #3
    DIY Junior Member Blitzen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    14

    Default

    Thanks Valveman...yes 03.
    You are right that it will reset itself.
    Usually though I am using the water and it trips and then I run out of pressure. It seems to take a long time to go back on by itself.
    I only use this pump once a week as it is on a piece of property I have so it does not get used that often even though it has been 7 years.

    Is there anything to the idea that pushing water 140 feet up the well and then 300 feet through the larger pipe (it might even be 2" I can't recall but it was bigger than 1") be wearing the motor out?
    I will look around on how to check the capacitors and relay.
    Is there any other way to determine what it might be short of just replacing the motor?
    Thanks again!
    Blitzen

  4. #4
    Moderator valveman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Lubbock, Texas
    Posts
    4,156

    Default

    The length or size of pipe is not a problem. Usually cycling on and off is what destroys pumps. Such a lightly used pump should last much longer. It could very well be a cap or relay in the box. After making sure the box is good, you can use an ohm meter to check for a short down hole. Then use an amp meter to check the starting and running amps. If there is no short and the amps are good, then it is probably the control box. Could also be low voltage causeing it to trip on startup. Check voltage at start up. I wouldn't pull the pump until I tried a new box or knew the box was 100%. Ohms are checked with the power off. Volts and amps are checked with power on, so be careful.

  5. #5
    DIY Junior Member Blitzen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    14

    Thumbs up

    Thanks Valveman you have been a huge help.
    I will check out the box and let the forum know the results.
    I hope you know you are a great asset to everyone here with questions!
    Blitzen

  6. #6
    General Engineering Contractor ballvalve's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    northfork, california
    Posts
    3,261

    Default

    Check your running amps through one complete cycle with a clamp on ammeter. Thats a big pump and may not be sized correctly for your useage. Test running amps while you are using water in the way you normally do when it shuts off on overheat. Test running amps with the outflow restricted to say 5 GPM.

    Contrary to your thinking about the big pipe, the pump may want MORE restriction.

    Read the franklin AIM manual online for box test info. Notice the differences in FLA and SFA for various types of control boxes.

    If you finally pull the pump I would add a flow inducer sleeve- that could be half your problem now.
    Last edited by ballvalve; 08-17-2010 at 10:22 AM.

  7. #7
    DIY Junior Member Blitzen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    14

    Default

    Thanks ballvalve! ..I am thinking I will check the box first (I actually need to figure out how to test the electrical. I have the equipment to test it I just don't really know how to use it). I have 300 feet of the one inch pipe that I think I will go ahead and hook up if I don't find something obvious with the box. It is 1" coming out of the well and then to 2" (or whatever it is) to the pressure tank.
    After reading some of valveman's website about multiple check valves I think I will do the new pipe without any check valves. The pipe now has 3 check valves ..one at the pressure tank, one 100 feet from there and another 100 feet from that one.
    I realize this is too many now thanks to valveman's site.
    I will read the Franklin manual.
    And THANKS!

    (I won't be able to get to it until this Sunday)

  8. #8
    General Engineering Contractor ballvalve's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    northfork, california
    Posts
    3,261

    Default

    I would'nt get up any hopes that the checkvalves are your problem, unless one is plugged up. Ideas about checkvalves can start fistfights, and Franklins Aim manual even reccommends them every 200 feet or so. Many codes mandate them, so its a real pro-choice issue. If you have 2" pipe to the tank you can keep it and save the 1" pipe - why change it? If you choose to dislike checkvalves you can just remove the guts or remove them altogther.

    I dont understand why guys believe check valves cause weird problems on the surface by a tank, when plain tanks and airmakers used them and continue to do so today without any issues.

    Every pump Mfgr's book calls for a checkvalve every 200' or so - and they do not make check valves or sell them. So go figure.

    SWING checkvalves are bad news, so if you have them, take them out.

  9. #9
    Moderator valveman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Lubbock, Texas
    Posts
    4,156

    Default

    Standard pressure tanks with air makers need a check valve above ground. But they drain back several feet of water when the pump shuts off. Then there is air before the second check when the pump starts, which cushions and eliminates water hammer.

    With a bladder tank, the line stays full of water. So if you have ever seen or heard the water hammer that happens on pump start, when the bottom check leaks back or fails, you will understand why more than one check valve is not a good idea. If nothing else, the leaking bottom check causes a negative pressure below the top check. This negative pressure can cause contamination to be drawn into the water line from the part of the line that is underground. There are only two kinds of valves manufactured, those that leak and those that will leak. So if you don’t have this problem when the system is new, it is only a matter of time.

    Some states like Michigan understand this and make it illegal to have a check valve above ground. Other states like Nebraska have rules made by politicians instead of intelligent people, and “require” a check valve above ground to pass for code. I know of many people who have removed the above ground check after they pass inspection or after they start hearing and feeling water hammer on pump start up.

    Manufacturers want multiple check valves because they don’t want their pumps spinning backwards. They think if one check valve is good then two is safer. Actually a check valve holds better when holding back all the pressure instead of when the pressure is split between two or more checks. I also wonder if manufacturers want to create water hammer, as it is transferred all the way to the motor and will shatter a thrust bearing. But manufacturers wouldn’t purposefully try to make pumps fail, just so they could sell you another pump would they? Well it is either that, or they have never seen a pump installed to understand how they work in the real world.

    2” pipe is better than 1”.

  10. #10
    DIY Junior Member Blitzen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    14

    Default

    Yeah that is what I read and those check valves are coming off this weekend. I definitely fell into the camp of "if one is good two is better".

  11. #11
    General Engineering Contractor ballvalve's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    northfork, california
    Posts
    3,261

    Default

    I would focus on testing the box and amp draw with the pump flow restricted before digging into the checkvalves which are a very seperate issue.

  12. #12
    DIY Junior Member Blitzen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    14

    Default

    Ok, will do.
    Thanks
    Last edited by Blitzen; 08-21-2010 at 06:45 AM. Reason: clarification

  13. #13
    DIY Junior Member Blitzen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    14

    Default

    I have a Franklin control box..it should be a 2hp control box correct?
    (I have a 2hp Goulds pump)
    I have been looking around the internet for a 2hp box just incase I need to replace the one I have but can't seem to find a 2hp box.
    Thanks!
    Blitzen

  14. #14

  15. #15
    DIY Junior Member Blitzen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    14

    Default

    Wow, so it turns out there is a 3/4hp control box running this 2hp pump. It has been this way for the last 5 years. Would that explain the symptoms? I saw that it was 3/4hp and didn't do any additional electrical testing.
    This seems like a dumb question but does a 2hp pump requires a 2 hp control box?..just double checking...

Similar Threads

  1. Garburator Works if ABS drain pipe disconnected
    By azigma in forum Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice, Tips & Tricks
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 07-05-2009, 01:57 PM
  2. Newbie Question: Priming a well pump that's been disconnected for years
    By delturcious in forum Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 09-07-2008, 05:50 PM
  3. Backup Power and 1/2 HP Flotec 230V Deep Well Submersible
    By SnittyKitty in forum Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 09-06-2008, 03:46 PM
  4. HELP Sewage ejector pump keeps running, stops overflow and works
    By Manish in forum Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice, Tips & Tricks
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 08-24-2008, 03:12 PM
  5. Submersible Pump Has Power But Not Pumping
    By sbholder in forum Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 06-04-2008, 02:28 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •