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Thread: leaking toilet after 2 flapper changes

  1. #16
    DIY Junior Member mikepl's Avatar
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    I have almost the exact situation described here. Briggs two piece toilet, water leaks from tank into bowl. Turning off the water, the tank drains almost completely (below the flapper at least). I have replace the fill tube assembly twice along with the tank gasket between the tank and bowl. No water on the outside of the toilet or on the floor. When I remove the tank, there is water "inside" the gasket, which to me, means water is leaking from around the fill tube.

    I'm not using any putty inside the tank under the fill tube (because replacement kits don't call for it). Should I be using putty to ensure the seal?

  2. #17
    DIY Senior Member wjcandee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikepl View Post
    I have almost the exact situation described here. Briggs two piece toilet, water leaks from tank into bowl. Turning off the water, the tank drains almost completely (below the flapper at least). I have replace the fill tube assembly twice along with the tank gasket between the tank and bowl. No water on the outside of the toilet or on the floor. When I remove the tank, there is water "inside" the gasket, which to me, means water is leaking from around the fill tube.

    I'm not using any putty inside the tank under the fill tube (because replacement kits don't call for it). Should I be using putty to ensure the seal?
    Shouldn't need putty to ensure the seal; if it is leaking around the intersection between the flush valve and the china tank, I'm surprised you're not seeing even a little water on the underside of the tank or on the china below or the floor. Any leakage around the interface between the flush valve and the china tank shouldn't be able easily to get into the bowl; it's hard to imagine how an entire tank of water could squeeze between the flush valve and the tank-to-bowl gasket and into the bowl without a drop ending up on the floor.

    When you say it's going below the flapper, do you mean that the water literally drops to a point below any portion of the rubber flapper, that if you opened the flapper not a drop would pass into the flush valve? When you changed what you call the fill tube assembly, does that mean you changed out the entire flush valve and flapper, i.e. removing the tank, removing the tank-to-bowl gasket, undoing the nut, and removing and replacing the whole valve? If so, my only thoughts would be: (1) when you run your finger over the hole where the flush valve goes, is the surface nice and even and smooth and there are no rough spots or cracks in the porcelain? I have seen the Loves suggest a light sanding of the bolt holes, so perhaps a light sanding of this area would be prudent before trying your third flush valve assembly; (2) if you get another flush valve, I have had great success with the Korky 4030PK flush valve kit with tank-to-bowl gasket and hardware. You get their nifty valve with extra-large, twist and slide to right height overflow riser [no cutting necessary], a Korky plus flapper, and decent hardware. They also give you enough hardware to double-nut the tank-to-bowl connection (i.e. mount bolt and rubber washer on inside of tank and hex nut and metal washer on outside, then insert that bolt into bowl and put another rubber washer, another metal washer and another hex nut on the underside of the bowl, which is the superior way of mounting the tank on the bowl). If you center that valve in the hole, it has a big thick-ish gasket that puffs when compressed and sealed up nicely in the (now 3) toilets in which I have used it. I know this may seem elementary, but just be sure that you actually read the instructions and make sure that the right hardware goes on the correct side (i.e. inside or outside) of the tank.

    If the water is actually going into the bowl, and it is not siphoning because the refill hose is stuck down into the overflow riser, and it isn't escaping around the flapper and it the chain isn't caught under the flapper, and the flush valve assembly isn't cracked and the china isn't cracked, then I don't see how the water is getting into the bowl.

    For what it's worth, the Korky instructions are so clear and provide such a good illustrated anatomy lesson for the toilet and its operation, it's worth reviewing them and mentally checking against what you have done in your past installations... Korky Flush Valve Kit Installation Instructions PS Step 9 in those instructions is a little outdated; Korky will currently give you a clip that stands the refill hose above the lip of the overflow riser, to ensure there is no siphon created by the refill tube dropping below the water line inside the overflow riser (a very common cause of water flowing from the tank to bowl); it is properly shown in the diagram at the top of the instructions.
    Last edited by wjcandee; 07-21-2012 at 01:19 PM.

  3. #18
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    I'd check the big nut on the bottom of the tank that holds the overflow/flapper valve assembly to the tank. It can leak there, and often, it can just go into the bowl without showing a leak onto the floor. If there is any bumps or dips in the porcelain or the valve seat assembly, and the nut isn't tight enough, that can lead to leaks. If the water actually gets below the lip of the flapper valve seat, then it has to be leaking out either underneath that assembly, or the fill valve, but if it was the fill valve, it would be leaking onto the floor as well.
    Jim DeBruycker
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  4. #19
    DIY Junior Member Joshua Mackinlay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jadnashua View Post
    I'd check the big nut on the bottom of the tank that holds the overflow/flapper valve assembly to the tank. It can leak there, and often, it can just go into the bowl without showing a leak onto the floor. If there is any bumps or dips in the porcelain or the valve seat assembly, and the nut isn't tight enough, that can lead to leaks. If the water actually gets below the lip of the flapper valve seat, then it has to be leaking out either underneath that assembly, or the fill valve, but if it was the fill valve, it would be leaking onto the floor as well.
    Much appreciated ! You may also take help form professional, for that visit at http://www.andersonplumbingheatingandair.com/

  5. #20
    DIY Junior Member Robert Kosta's Avatar
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    Ok, I have the same issue. Two flappers replaced, tried nice Korky. Still the tank empties halfway and I get ghost flushes. There is no siphon problem since the hose is barely in the overflow tube.
    I noticed there is black color that comes off when I rub at the seal beneath the flapper seal (where it meet the tank, not the flapper), like ink. No leakage onto the floor. Chain is not getting caught. How is the water getting into the bowl?
    Photos:


    Last edited by Robert Kosta; 01-26-2014 at 08:18 PM.

  6. #21
    DIY Senior Member wjcandee's Avatar
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    It's hard to know from your description. Forgive if I'm being redundant, but I would flush it, let it fill, turn off the water at the wall valve. Let it sit. See how low it goes. You say it drains halfway. If it drains halfway every single time to the same spot, I would check that overflow riser for a crack. Pinch it a little at the top and make sure it doesn't deform.

    In your photo, you appear to have a fluidmaster flapper in there. You say you also tried a Korky, and still the same problem? If it's not a crack in your overflow riser, you might the Korky Easyfix 2003BP kit Link to kit which allows you to put a new seat on the flush valve. The other possibility would be to change out the flush valve. That isnt too complicated a job. The hardest part is removing the tank and the old flush valve, which often find ways to make that challenging. Here's a nice Korky kit with a flush valve I have installed on several toilets; the overflow riser is oversized and easy to adjust without cutting it: http://korky.com/FlushValveKit4030PK.html

    I would start with trying to fix it, though.
    Last edited by wjcandee; 01-26-2014 at 10:44 PM.

  7. #22
    DIY Junior Member Robert Kosta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wjcandee View Post
    It's hard to know from your description. Forgive if I'm being redundant, but I would flush it, let it fill, turn off the water at the wall valve. Let it sit. See how low it goes. You say it drains halfway. If it drains halfway every single time to the same spot, I would check that overflow riser for a crack. Pinch it a little at the top and make sure it doesn't deform.

    In your photo, you appear to have a fluidmaster flapper in there. You say you also tried a Korky, and still the same problem? If it's not a crack in your overflow riser, you might the Korky Easyfix 2003BP kit Link to kit which allows you to put a new seat on the flush valve. The other possibility would be to change out the flush valve. That isnt too complicated a job. The hardest part is removing the tank and the old flush valve, which often find ways to make that challenging. Here's a nice Korky kit with a flush valve I have installed on several toilets; the overflow riser is oversized and easy to adjust without cutting it: http://korky.com/FlushValveKit4030PK.html

    I would start with trying to fix it, though.
    Thanks very much. At the moment I removed the Korky flapper since the problem did not go away. Previously I installed the Korky Easyfix, with new seat, but the problem persists. The water level falls to different levels below the halfway mark. I put dye in and noted the water does get to the bowl. I suspect the tank seal since black ink comes off when I touch it and was thinking about trying this next, http://www.lockeplumbing.com/detail....r3=FEI-NL9-LED.

    Would it be just as easy to replace the tank? It is a Briggs 4930. Not sure where to find one. It was installed in 1989.

  8. #23
    Jack of all trades DonL's Avatar
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    I am not a pro, but it looks like that chain may be able to keep the flapper open, when the links catch on each other.

    I hate when that happens.

    Cutting off the un-used links, may help. Then they are less lucky to get caught on the others.


    Good Luck.
    Last edited by DonL; 01-27-2014 at 11:54 AM.
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  9. #24
    DIY Senior Member wjcandee's Avatar
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    I was thinking the same thing about that chain. However, seems like the problem predated this flapper.

    No need to buy a new tank since the porcelain seems fine. Next step is to change the flush valve. If porcelain isn't cracked on the tank, changing the flush valve will assuredly solve the problem, since the water is flowing through the flush valve into the bowl. This is a good one that I have installed in several toilets: http://korky.com/FlushValveKit4030PK.html Available at Lowe's and other fine retailers. http://www.lowes.com/pd_125469-868-4...lve&facetInfo= Here are the instructions so you can see what's involved: http://korky.com/PDF/4030.pdf If you're feeling adventurous and want to install a new fill valve at the same time, this Korky kit adds a fill valve: http://korky.com/FlushValveRepairKit4010PK.html Or you can just do that at a subsequent time, as it is a very simple job for which you don't need to pull the tank.

    If you are nitpicky as I am, I would also go ahead and use better tank-to-bowl bolts than Korky is going to give you. Specifically, I would double-nut the installation. Meaning, you get a set of bolts that has two washers, nuts and rubber washers per bolt. Korky used to do this until handi-hacks kept screwing up the install or tossing the extra hardware because they didn't bother to read the instructions which were crystal-clear. So now they only give you one nut, metal washer and rubber washer per bolt. Something like this will keep your tank in place for another 30 years or more, although you don't need one this expensive. http://kscdirect.com/item/SIO%2B490-...OLT%2BSET%250A But you get the idea. The order is: bolt head and rubber washer inside tank, metal washer and nut outside tank, THEN under the bowl, you use the rubber washer, metal washer and nut to hold the tank in place. If you have or can borrow a big set of channel locks, it will make removing the old flush valve nut easier, and make it easier to snug up the new one. When you reattach the tank, tighten down little by little, side to side, until you have the tank just about touching porcelain. No need for it to actually touch, indeed if it does you can crack it, but the thickness of say 3 sheets of paper is fine. That will give you a nice stable tank. Come back if you have any more questions.
    Last edited by wjcandee; 01-27-2014 at 01:37 PM.

  10. #25

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    Old post but same problem , Briggs 4430 toilet (marked inside toilet tank) the flapper rubber chain broke off at top of flapper. Not thinking of looking on here and read up , I went to the local Ace hardware store and bought a universal flapper. Installed it and flushed a couple times .Now have a trickle of water inside bowl WTH ?
    Turned the water off , drained tank , lifted up new flapper felt the base where the flapper seats , smooth nothing. Googled Briggs flapper and out came all the problems , needs to be a Briggs flapper. I couldn't find one in a search but found that Korky has one that fits the Briggs . I order it No. 65BP. Same thing tricckle of water inside bowl . I get on here and found this thread read it all the way through. Knowing its the flapper and not something else I tried korky.com/FlushValveRepairKit4010PK.html , but still did the same thing. Finally went with the Fluidmaster repair Kit and replaced the flush valve assembly etc.
    Works great now !

  11. #26

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    double post DOH !!
    Last edited by Abouthadit; 03-03-2014 at 09:39 AM.

  12. #27
    DIY Senior Member wjcandee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abouthadit View Post
    Old post but same problem , Briggs 4430 toilet (marked inside toilet tank) the flapper rubber chain broke off at top of flapper. Not thinking of looking on here and read up , I went to the local Ace hardware store and bought a universal flapper. Installed it and flushed a couple times .Now have a trickle of water inside bowl WTH ?
    Turned the water off , drained tank , lifted up new flapper felt the base where the flapper seats , smooth nothing. Googled Briggs flapper and out came all the problems , needs to be a Briggs flapper. I couldn't find one in a search but found that Korky has one that fits the Briggs . I order it No. 65BP. Same thing tricckle of water inside bowl . I get on here and found this thread read it all the way through. Knowing its the flapper and not something else I tried korky.com/FlushValveRepairKit4010PK.html , but still did the same thing. Finally went with the Fluidmaster repair Kit and replaced the flush valve assembly etc.
    Works great now !
    Thanks for the report. I was going to say that if you were up to it, you probably wanted just to change out the flush valve, and that you didnt need to get the Briggs one. I have used this Korky one on several toilets, with good results. http://korky.com/FlushValveKit4030PK.html But if that Fluidmaster one worked for you, then there you go! Good job!

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