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Thread: Hopefully basic question on creating plumbing for softener

  1. #1
    DIY Junior Member 606zpx's Avatar
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    Default Hopefully basic question on creating plumbing for softener

    Howdy, have lurked but never posted.

    Have 3/4 copper coming into house as supply. I will be locating a softener (have not purchased yet) in my pool pump house. In order to do so, I must run a line out and back from under the house. Hard to say how many feet each way, but probably around 30 feet on each leg.

    When it emerges from the crawlspace it will be under my deck then into the poolhouse.

    Is there any significant disadvantage in using sched 40 pvc 3/4" to create this loop? Note that I live in Savannah, GA so freezing weather will not be a major issue.


    I was probably going to go clack but now they cannot be sold over the net I guess...so will probably get a fleck.

  2. #2
    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    PVC can be used below ground, not above ground except as a stand pipe.
    PVC is affected by heat. The warmer the pipe gets, the less pressure it can take.
    CPVC, PEX or Copper would be ok.

  3. #3
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    IN GA etc. PE (polyethylene) is very common and I would use 1" PE and sch 40 PVC at the softener and back to PE back to the house.

    Terry, if you ever go east, you'll probably be surprised to see PVC out in the sun all over the south.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  4. #4
    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    Gary,
    When a homeowner asks a plumbing question here, I don't feel I'm doing them a favor if I instruct them to do something that a plumbing inspector wouldn't approve.
    I'm sure you see lots of hack plumbing in the South.
    But when a homeowner picks up a plumbing permit, then I want the plumbing inspector to speak kindly about me.
    No sense making the homeowner do everything twice either.

    Of course in Central America you can see all kinds of hack plumbing too. That doesn't make me want to copy it though.
    You can't even drink their water like you can ours.

    Terry, if you ever go east, you'll probably be surprised to see PVC out in the sun all over the south.
    Gary
    Last edited by Terry; 07-11-2010 at 12:14 AM.

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    In the Trades Wally Hays's Avatar
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    Terry, I've seen plumbing in Bogata, in so called nice hotels that absolutely makes you wonder why everyone down there doesn't have dysentery. Codes and safe plumbing practice are not high up on the to do list in South America but if you really want to see some horror shows take a trip to India
    Perception is 3/4 of reality

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    DIY Junior Member 606zpx's Avatar
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    The run would not be exposed to the sun at all and under the deck and in the pump house it is pretty cool even in the highest heat o summer.

    Like I said the softener will be in the pump house and the run would be coming from under the house running under the deck and directly into the pump house.

    Also, Gary, why did you say 1" since I have 3/4" coming into the house....I assume the inside diameter of the pipe is the same. Is it a pressure loss issue over the length of the run?
    Last edited by 606zpx; 07-11-2010 at 06:48 AM.

  7. #7
    In the Trades Wally Hays's Avatar
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    The valve head will most likely be tapped 1" and since you are running about 60' of pipe plus fittings the friction loss through the valve head and the piping/fittings it would be a good idea to run 1" and keep losses to a minimum.
    Perception is 3/4 of reality

  8. #8
    DIY Junior Member 606zpx's Avatar
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    Forgot I have an architect relative around here. In my application pvc is acceptable. Will go with the 1" PVC suggestion through. I am going to install metal valves wher it takes off from the house in the event I have a failure though.

  9. #9
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    Gary,
    When a homeowner asks a plumbing question here, I don't feel I'm doing them a favor if I instruct them to do something that a plumbing inspector wouldn't approve.
    I'm sure you see lots of hack plumbing in the South.
    The OP is a DIYer from GA. In the south PVC is allowed (see his followup post saying so) just about anywhere you want to use it, above and below ground.

    IMO and especially since Wally says there are no national codes, applying codes from another region/area of the country on other areas/regions of the country or, proposing personal favorite materials over others, is at best misinformation. So I don't do that and then I get a lot of grief from plumbers wielding their non national local code books and personal preferences instead of accurate info for that specific poster.

    I suggested PE because for this application it is approved everywhere and it is a much better choice than 10-20' pieces of PVC, especially for a DIYer because it costs the least, there are only two joints one on each end of the run because it is commonly bought in rolls from 100' to 500'. So I propose it to everyone, as I believe everyone advising posters of all kinds here should; the internet's biggest and best plumbing etc. forum that I have told people about for going on 10 years now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    But when a homeowner picks up a plumbing permit, then I want the plumbing inspector to speak kindly about me.
    No sense making the homeowner do everything twice either.
    I've found that most non urban DIYers (and even some of them) have an individual freedom driven independent streak and do not get permits and therefore do not have inspections for water line plumbing they do in their own homes or on their property. Especially if they have their own well.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  10. #10
    In the Trades Wally Hays's Avatar
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    Georgia is under the IPC. That's the "International Plumbing Code" with local amendments where applicable.

    The OP is a DIYer from GA. In the south PVC is allowed (see his followup post saying so) just about anywhere you want to use it, above and below ground.

    Unless Georgia has amended the IPC to allow above ground use then it can not be.

    IMO and especially since Wally says there are no national codes, applying codes from another region/area of the country on other areas/regions of the country or, proposing personal favorite materials over others, is at best misinformation. So I don't do that and then I get a lot of grief from plumbers wielding their non national local code books and personal preferences instead of accurate info for that specific poster.

    Nobody is applying anything. And there are no local code books. Whatever code the state adopts is its code. We use the IPC in NH and Maine as well. Different regions, same code. There are no region specific code books although certain regions do amend the code for conditions. I.E. we have to penetrate the roof with a vent no smaller than 3 in half the state and up north 4 for frost closure reasons.

    I suggested PE because for this application it is approved everywhere and it is a much better choice than 10-20' pieces of PVC, especially for a DIYer because it costs the least, there are only two joints one on each end of the run because it is commonly bought in rolls from 100' to 500'. So I propose it to everyone, as I believe everyone advising posters of all kinds here should; the internet's biggest and best plumbing etc. forum that I have told people about for going on 10 years now.

    It is not approved everywhere nor is it approved for all applications. The user needs to read and understand his states code before blindly following advice.

    Not getting a permit is not an "Individual freedom" It is in fact a misdemeanor punishable by fine.

    Not getting a permit and an inspection leaves the homeowner open to liability should any part of the installation be in violation or cause damage to occur to the property or the property of others including liability when and if the property is sold in the future. Homeowners insurance will not cover damages or personal injury caused by non permitted or inspected plumbing ( wiring either for that matter)
    Last edited by Wally Hays; 07-11-2010 at 01:50 PM.
    Perception is 3/4 of reality

  11. #11
    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    Wally,
    How do you like this for a reply?
    This is my son Jamie singing "No more excuses, no more exuses from you."
    I think he may have gotten that from me.

    Last edited by Terry; 07-14-2010 at 08:06 PM.

  12. #12
    In the Trades Wally Hays's Avatar
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    That's the best sounding vid I have seen of them. Usually the audio comes out messed up on my computer for some reason. Band sounds real tight. How are they doing?
    Perception is 3/4 of reality

  13. #13
    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    It's a good thing they have day jobs considering that nobody buys CD's anymore.
    The drummer is a painter, the guitarist works at Nordstrom's, the bass player has a music recording studio, and Jamie the singer works as a plumber for me.
    I realized last week that I had about 80 minutes of live footage with three cameras that I hadn't edited yet. These are from two camera's, I was in a hurry to put something up.
    They're playing gigs around town, but they haven't been to LA or Hawaii for a while.


  14. #14
    In the Trades Wally Hays's Avatar
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    It's tough to have a full time day job and try to get something big started. Do they have a manager?
    Perception is 3/4 of reality

  15. #15
    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    Not at the moment,
    There was some management a few years ago, but I don't think they were music industry savvy.
    That's when they were in Los Angeles for a while. They played some clubs there, but they made the arrangements themselves.
    They were playing as openers and such, and after they played the club owners would ask for their autographs and apologize for not having them as part of a big bill.
    A year later they were flown down to play a New Years Party, I guess that was a pretty good party.
    Many times when they play, people just assume that they are a signed band. Even in the beginning, people in Pioneer Square would come up and ask who they really were. Like they were a famous band making a surprise showing. Since I'm the one with the big camcorder, they get allot of the questions like that.

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