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Thread: Foot Vent For Island Sink....Could an inspector be wrong? UPC

  1. #1
    DIY Junior Member JohnnyR's Avatar
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    Default Foot Vent For Island Sink....Could an inspector be wrong? UPC

    Hey everyone,

    First I'd like to thank everyone who helped me set up my DWV, passed dry fitting inspection first try. Thank you.

    However, I had one fitting that the inspector wants me to change when I glue.

    My foot vent looks just like the first image except I put a clean out on the vent above the floor.

    Name:  loop-vent1.jpg
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    My question is with the second picture:

    Name:  loop-vent2.jpg
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    The picture here shows a San Tee being used, however my inspector wants a wye combo there instead. My first reaction at the time, do whatever the inspector says, but now that I'm gluing the combo is adding about 2", dropping the drain below the ceiling in the basement, which I was hoping wouldn't happen.

    Any suggestions? Should I challenge the inspector or just do it like he wants and deal with a drop ceiling?

    Thanks in advance for any help

    Johnnyr

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    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    There should have been a cleanout on the foot vent, the drawin didn't show that.
    The santee on the vertical should be fine. It's how we plumb them in Seattle.

    The picture shows wye combos on their backs. Those are fine that way too.

    Last edited by Terry; 01-26-2012 at 05:31 PM.

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    DIY Junior Member JohnnyR's Avatar
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    Hey Terry

    Thanks for the reply, Yeah have you ever heard of an inspector asking for a wye combo in place of the santee on the vertical?

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    Plumber Winslow's Avatar
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    According to the way it is worded in the UPC the fitting should be a wye type (combo). It is up to the local jurisdiction exactly how they want it. Here in Hawaii the inspectors allowed a san tee in that position for many years. However with the influx of a new batch of inspectors they now require it to be a combo exactly as stated in the UPC.

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    DIY Senior Member asktom's Avatar
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    The UPC Illustrated Training Manual also shows a combination.

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    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
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    Put a 45, under the floor. The sanitary, (or even a street sanitary), tee on its back facing upward at a 45 degree angle with a street 45 restoring it to horizontal. Then out of the bottom of the sanitary tee into a "Y" on its back and you will not add any depth and will comply with the strict code interpretation.

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    DIY Senior Member asktom's Avatar
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    Very clever, HJ.

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    Plumber Winslow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hj View Post
    Put a 45, under the floor. The sanitary, (or even a street sanitary), tee on its back facing upward at a 45 degree angle with a street 45 restoring it to horizontal. Then out of the bottom of the sanitary tee into a "Y" on its back and you will not add any depth and will comply with the strict code interpretation.
    According to the UPC you cannot have a sanitary tee anywhere in the configuration under the floor, no matter how you position it. As I already said it really depends on how the local authority wants it as they have the final say in their jurisdiction.

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    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
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    quote; According to the UPC you cannot have a sanitary tee anywhere in the configuration under the floor, no matter how you position it.

    Interesting. Then that means that ALL the sanitary tees I have installed in 45 degree lines, AND vertical lines, beneath the floor, (for 60 years), have been "illegal", but the inspectors NEVER caught them?

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    Plumber Winslow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hj View Post
    quote; According to the UPC you cannot have a sanitary tee anywhere in the configuration under the floor, no matter how you position it.

    Interesting. Then that means that ALL the sanitary tees I have installed in 45 degree lines, AND vertical lines, beneath the floor, (for 60 years), have been "illegal", but the inspectors NEVER caught them?
    No, that means that the local authority in your jurisdiction(s) allow it.

    For many years here in Hawaii the plumbing inspectors allowed a sanitary tee instead of the wye type fitting, now however they are enforcing a stricter interpretation as stated in the UPC. The UPC is quite clear on their requirement for the fittings in an island vent. I'll quote exactly what it states later when I get home.

    Keep in mind the plumbing code is actually what the local authority decides it will be. Some states, such as MA have their own code. Other states, such as Hawaii adopt a code (UPC) but then add their own ammendments, effectively changing or deleting certain parts within the code. For instance the UPC has a height restriction for using ABS for drainage in buildings which the Hawaii authority deleted , eliminating the restriction.

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    Plumber Winslow's Avatar
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    Here is how the UPC states the procedure of roughing in an island sink:

    909.0 Special Venting for Island Fixtures
    Traps for island sinks and similar equipment shall be
    roughed in above the floor and may be vented by
    extending the vent as high as possible, but not less
    than the drainboard height and then returning it
    downward and connecting it to the horizontal sink
    drain immediately downstream from the vertical
    fixture drain. The return vent shall be connected to the
    horizontal drain through a wye-branch fitting and
    shall, in addition, be provided with a foot vent taken
    off the vertical fixture vent by means of a wye-branch
    immediately below the floor
    and extending to the
    nearest partition and then through the roof to the
    open air or may be connected to other vents at a point
    not less than six (6) inches (152 mm) above the flood
    level rim of the fixtures served. Drainage fittings shall
    be used on all parts of the vent below the floor level
    and a minimum slope of one-quarter (1/4) inch per
    foot (20.9 mm/m) back to the drain shall be
    maintained. The return bend used under the
    drainboard shall be a one (1) piece fitting or an
    assembly of a forty-five (45) degree (0.79 rad), a ninety
    (90) degree (1.6 rad) and a forty-five (45) degree (0.79
    rad) elbow in the order named. Pipe sizing shall be as
    elsewhere required in this Code. The island sink
    drain, upstream of the returned vent, shall serve no
    other fixtures. An accessible cleanout shall be installed
    in the vertical portion of the foot vent.

    Again it is necessary to reiterate that local authorities ammend the UPC and interpret it to suit their own requirements. Just because the UPC states it a certain way and an authority adopts it doesn't mean they enforce it according to the letter. It is therefore necessary to find out how your local authority has ammended or interprets the code.

  12. #12
    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
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    No problem if you have an issue with a sanitary tee on a 45. A "Y" and street ell, or a combo and a street 45 will do the same thing. The "ideal" island waste and vent is merely a "concept" anyway. I have installed many of them which conformed to the "spirit" of the design, but not the form because of space limitations.

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    Plumber Winslow's Avatar
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    it has nothing to do with how the mechanic feels about the issue, it is all about the interpretation of the governing authority and the inspectors under them.


    i tried that "spirit of the design" thing once and the inspector told me to do it right or tell the owner to add a wall or chase to vent it in the standard fashion. I ended up trenching all the way out to a cleanout about 30 feet from the building to get the depth required to do it according to the inspectors requirement, which by the way did include a sanitary tee below grade.

    Not trying to be confrontational but when giving advice we must remember it is not what is permissable according to how our local authorities enforce the code, it is about where the person seeking info lives. In that manner we should give advice according to what the code actually dictates and recommend they get their local authorities interpretation including ammendments.

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    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
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    quote; In that manner we should give advice according to what the code actually dictates and recommend they get their local authorities interpretation including ammendments.

    WE can only give advice according to our experience. (Mine being 60 years in some of the most stringent areas of the country) IF they want a definitive answer for their area, THEN call the local inspector for the advice, and do not ask us.

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    Plumber Winslow's Avatar
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    I would agree that would be adaquate for the general advice forums but a code specific forum we should give advice according to what the code says. Thats just my opinion.

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