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Thread: Fleck 9100 and well gpm questions

  1. #46
    DIY Senior Member Bob999's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Slusser View Post
    But then you have improved because not too long ago you were saying a maximum of 5 gpg/cuft.
    There you go again huffin and puffin and posting false information.

    I challenge you to back up your statement.

  2. #47
    In the Trades Wally Hays's Avatar
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    Boudreaux, I hope you managed to get something of value from your thread. Unfortunately 9 out of 10 times, when the subject of sizing or programming comes up, it rapidly turns into a argument that is of little or no help to anyone. If I could have PM'd you I would have and given you a decent place to start but alas, we can not PM. I guarantee that if I post my recommendation here, there will be yet another endless argument and questioning of one's ability to properly size things.
    Last edited by Wally Hays; 07-07-2010 at 03:27 PM.
    Perception is 3/4 of reality

  3. #48
    DIY Junior Member boudreaux's Avatar
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    Wally Hays,
    I definitely have learned alot from this thread. Importantly, I did not make a bad purchase for my paricular application with the Kinetico CP thanks to Gary Slusser and Bob999 in explaining it.

    Gary, are you saying that the Fleck 9100 with the 1" control valve with 4 cuft resin per tank is able to handle continuous 20.4gpm without leakage? The spec sheet lists continuous 21gpm for the control valve, would I still get 20.4 gpm treated? Would there be less gpm due to the pressure loss by the resin?

    Thanks,

    Boudreaux

  4. #49
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    As I've said before, the control valve has nothing to do with hardness leakage, it is a function of the resin only.

    The softener would have a constant SFR of 24 gpm until a regeneration starts and is finished.

    Yes with the 1" meter and 32mm distributor tube but I would not use a softener for your irrigation water, I'd only use a softener on the house water.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  5. #50
    In the Trades Wally Hays's Avatar
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    The valve head has nothing to do with it. You will get treated water until the resin is loaded which is a function of how much water you put through it and during regeneration you get untreated water.
    Perception is 3/4 of reality

  6. #51
    DIY Senior Member Bob999's Avatar
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    The valve head contributes to pressure loss but has nothing to do with harness leakage. Hardness leakage, to simplify things a bit, is a function of the size of the resin bed and flow--the higher the flow the larger the volume of the resin bed needs to be (all other things equal).

    I recall you posted that your irrigation contractor was going to increase your pressure settings to provide adequate pressure for the irrigation system. That suggests to me that you need to pay attention to pressure losses associated with any equipment you install in your water supply.

    The primary differences between the Fleck 9100 and 9500 control heads are the size of the internal passages and pressure drop across the valve at differing flows and the accuracy of the meter at low flows. The Specs for the 9100 show that there is a 15 psi pressure drop across the head (alone) at a flow rate of 18 gpm (21 gpm with the 1" meter). So if you can accept a 15 psi pressure drop and accept the limitations of the 1" meter the Fleck 9100 with a 1" meter could be used. The downside of the 1" meter, as compared to the 3/4", meter is it's ability to accurately measure low flows that typically occur in residential use--when you are not irrigating for example. The 3/4" meter is reasonably accurate down to flows of .25 gpm while the 1" meter is reasonable accurate down to flows of 0.7 gpm.

    The Fleck 9500 will flow 9.8 gpm with a 1 psi pressure drop and 38 gpm with a 15 psi pressure drop. Intermediate figures are not published but the relationship is logarithmic and pressure drop at 20 gpm is probably in the 3-5 psi range. The Fleck 9500 meter is only accurate 1.5 gpm and up.

  7. #52
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wally Hays View Post
    You will get treated water until the resin is loaded which is a function of how much water you put through it and during regeneration you get untreated water.
    Wrong, a twin tank provides softened water through the tank in service as the other tank is in regeneration.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  8. #53
    In the Trades Wally Hays's Avatar
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    Yes, but when did we determine that he was going with a twin tank set up? I may have missed that post and if so then sorry, please disregard post #50 though didn't you post much the same thing in post #49 ?
    Perception is 3/4 of reality

  9. #54
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob999 View Post
    The valve head contributes to pressure loss but has nothing to do with harness leakage. Hardness leakage, to simplify things a bit, is a function of the size of the resin bed and flow--the higher the flow the larger the volume of the resin bed needs to be (all other things equal).
    Well not all things. Such as larger volumes of resin can use less salt than smaller and that results in higher salt efficiency.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob999 View Post
    The primary differences between the Fleck 9100 and 9500 control heads are the size of the internal passages and pressure drop across the valve at differing flows and the accuracy of the meter at low flows.

    The Specs for the 9100 show that there is a 15 psi pressure drop across the head (alone) at a flow rate of 18 gpm (21 gpm with the 1" meter). So if you can accept a 15 psi pressure drop and accept the limitations of the 1" meter the Fleck 9100 with a 1" meter could be used. The downside of the 1" meter, as compared to the 3/4", meter is it's ability to accurately measure low flows that typically occur in residential use--when you are not irrigating for example. The 3/4" meter is reasonably accurate down to flows of .25 gpm while the 1" meter is reasonable accurate down to flows of 0.7 gpm.

    The Fleck 9500 will flow 9.8 gpm with a 1 psi pressure drop and 38 gpm with a 15 psi pressure drop. Intermediate figures are not published but the relationship is logarithmic and pressure drop at 20 gpm is probably in the 3-5 psi range. The Fleck 9500 meter is only accurate 1.5 gpm and up.
    Bob, you don't mention what the 9100 will flow at with a 1 psi pressure drop but BOB! I'm so glad to see that you're finally using all the data on a control valve spec sheet. I'll accept your apology.

    What is the 9100 flow rate at 1 psi drop?

    I also note that the 9500 meter is not good for household applications.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  10. #55
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wally Hays View Post
    Yes, but when did we determine that he was going with a twin tank set up? I may have missed that post and if so then sorry, please disregard post #50 though didn't you post much the same thing in post #49 ?
    The subject of the thread is about a Fleck twin alternating control valve which is used on a twin tank softener and you said "untreated water when in regeneration", that is wrong. A twin provides softened water from one tank while the other is regenerated.

    No I didn't say the same thing.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

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