Fleck 9100 and well gpm questions

[Wally Hays]

duplicate of post below

[Wally Hays]

Find one single anti DIY post here and re-post it.

I have not been booted here or anywhere else. How about you?

I am not agitating at all. I answer posts to the best of my knowledge and direct them to the OP, not you. You are the one that started by climbing all over Bob. something that you manage to do with regularity which invariably leads to a total cock-up of the entire thread. We all know you think you are the only guy that can size a softener so why not let it go. Post your advice and leave it at that. Why the need to jab at everyone else all the time.?

[Gary Slusser]

Clack is shutting down because their dealers bitched about competition from online dealers. It had zero to do with anyone sizing incorrectly.

Wrong. Clack has no dealers.

Their contracted distributors have the dealers. Incorrect sizing and not helping customers with programming problems and not giving them instructions are primary factors in Clack's decision to force their distributors to shut down the distributors' internet dealers.

[Gary Slusser]

I am not agitating at all. I answer posts to the best of my knowledge and direct them to the OP, not you.

LOL yer not huh, yeah ya are. And the rest about replying to the OP, NOT TRUE.

Here is the entire text of your first reply in this thread, post #7. "The fun never ends.............................................. .....".

All your other replies are directly to me personally while you run me down. There is not one reply by you that says anything to the OP anywhere in this thread.

So why is that if not to agitate?

You are the one that started by climbing all over Bob.

Not true.

My first reply in the thread was to the OP and again, although I did not say anything to him, Bob replied to it by jumping on me personally as all the the rest of his replies in the thread do.

I have not attacked him personally and if you think I have, prove it by copying/pasting what I said that you mistakenly think was a personal attack.

We all know you think you are the only guy that can size a softener so why not let it go. Post your advice and leave it at that.

Yes I know how to correctly size softeners and I seem to be the only one here that does. I'd like to "leave it at that" as you command but, I will reply to personal attacks until they stop.

If you don't like that or my posts, be a man and demonstrate some self control and choose not to read them instead of faking the hurt little girl thing. I promise you'll feel better.

[Wally Hays]

I stand corrected Clacks OEM dealers.

Post #5, you started on Bob not the other way around.

If you think that calling attention to your constant negative posts against other members is agitating then so be it.

I have never personally attacked you. Copy the post.

Explain why if everyone does not agree with you you seem to think its a personal attack and yet you are free to argue with and bash anyone you feel like?

You remind me a lot of Obama. Just because you keep saying the same thing over and over does not make it true.

And yes, I suppose the entire forum would be better if we all stopped reading your posts and let you be the only guy here with an opinion.

[Bob999]

Yes I know how to correctly size softeners and I seem to be the only one here that does.

That is your opinion and not a fact.

This comment is a prime example why you are in continual conflict with other posters--you can't (or won't) differentiate between your opinions and facts.

You seem to think anything you post is a fact just because you post it. THAT IS SIMPLY NOT TRUE!!!

If your opinions differ from opinions offered by other posters you attack and bash the other posters.

I agree with Wally's observation that you are the one causing problems here. You are apparently incapable of recognizing that there are other valid views. You repeatedly attack and bash others who post opinions that don't agree with your views.

[Wally Hays]

Bob, let it go. It's a proven waste of time and effort.

[Gary Slusser]

I stand corrected Clacks OEM dealers.

Man you just keep digging yourself deeper.

Clack only sells large quantities at wholesale to their contracted OEM/Distributors.

Clack's distributors are OEMs (original equipment manufacturers), in this case softeners, they 'manufacture a softener which includes a Clack componet part, the control valve. The OEM/Distributor is NOT a DEALER for Clack or anyone else. 99% of them do not sell retail; wholesale only by law.

They, the OEM/Distributor, sells to their dealers; dealers such as me and all other internet or local dealers; including franchisees, exclusive territory and independent dealers.

Post #5, you started on Bob not the other way around.

Nope, I did not mention him or anyone else.

I have never personally attacked you. Copy the post.

Read this post and tell me what you call it if not a personal attack. Everything you have said is about me personally; not a single mention of anything important to the OP. Same in all of your other posts in this and most threads in this forum.

Explain why if everyone does not agree with you you seem to think its a personal attack and yet you are free to argue with and bash anyone you feel like?

So you think my posting those articles about sizing softeners is arguing... I can see why.

You remind me a lot of Obama.

Well known and popular and all powerful huh. And here I've been thinking the same about you and how you flit from one subject to another with the attention span of a gnat reveling in your false sense of grandeur while scheming and blaming everything on me.

Those parts of articles I posted went right over your head and I'm sorry about that but Bob is wrong about 8 gpm/cuft and something about control valve flow rate pressure loss. I.E. his 8 gpm/cuft in a 2.0 cuft softener (16 gpm) is going to allow serious hardness leakage (over 1 gpg) because 16 gpm is way over the constant SFR gpm of 2.0 cuft of any kind of resin. And the OP talking about buying a twin tank softener should not believe 16 gpm per tank. You can get into that in the articles where Chub talks about bed depths and such.

And yes, I suppose the entire forum would be better if we all stopped reading your posts and let you be the only guy here with an opinion.

Not reading my posts is a great idea, y'all will feel better but listen, what I say as far as sizing equipment, that's not an opinion, that is accurate and free information. Now I understand your not being able to follow it but still, put the adult beverages down and you could learn something or don't read my posts, it's your choice.

[Gary Slusser]

That is your opinion and not a fact.

This comment is a prime example why you are in continual conflict with other posters--you can't (or won't) differentiate between your opinions and facts.

I can prove everything I say and you will still disagree, as you have in this thread and the articles I posted. You haven't discussed anything in them. Now my opinion of why is because they prove you wrong and you won't admit it.

And at the same time, I have many years of extensive experience in sizing and servicing thousands of softeners for customers and so far, you seem to have not sold the first one yet.

You are apparently incapable of recognizing that there are other valid views. You repeatedly attack and bash others who post opinions that don't agree with your views.

Valid "views" or "opinions"... Then I suggest you and others start posting facts. Facts that relate to high salt and water efficiency. Or how a twin tank softener is more efficient than a two tank softener with the same volume and type of resin and salt dose. or how to arrive at the constant SFR of a softener. You have disagreed with me on all of those subjects but never post facts.

You give your opinion or view but, what are they based on really, DO YOU SELL SOFTENERS? Have you sold and serviced softeners for customers? Or are you just someone with one and only opinions and views?

Such as, where you get 8 gpm per cuft for SFR and that bed depth isn't critical to the SFR of a softener. Or how your opinion of the info on a control valve spec sheet is incorrect because it is incomplete.

How about some facts about those subjects Bob.

[Bob999]

The OEM/Distributor is NOT a DEALER for Clack or anyone else. 99% of them do not sell retail; wholesale only by law.

So far as I know there is no law that says a Clack OEM/Distributor can sell wholesale only.

I challenge you to provide a specific legal citation to back up your post.

In the absence of a specific citation we will have to conclude this is just another bit of hot air and misinformation.

[Wally Hays]

Man you just keep digging yourself deeper.

Clack only sells large quantities at wholesale to their contracted OEM/Distributors.

Clack's distributors are OEMs (original equipment manufacturers), in this case softeners, they 'manufacture a softener which includes a Clack componet part, the control valve. The OEM/Distributor is NOT a DEALER for Clack or anyone else. 99% of them do not sell retail; wholesale only by law.

They, the OEM/Distributor, sells to their dealers; dealers such as me and all other internet or local dealers; including franchisees, exclusive territory and independent dealers.

Well you like semantics but the fact is they don't want YOU selling their equipment anymore.


Nope, I did not mention him or anyone else

Yes you did and then later edited it out. A familiar tactic


Read this post and tell me what you call it if not a personal attack. Everything you have said is about me personally; not a single mention of anything important to the OP. Same in all of your other posts in this and most threads in this forum.

What have I said about you personally that is not the truth? I have not name called you at all.


So you think my posting those articles about sizing softeners is arguing... I can see why.

Not the articles themselves, it's the constant bashing that you do of others opinions. I personally don't give a crap how you size. I don't care if you are right or wrong. but it's kinda funny that you always seem to be the only one that does it that way no matter what forum you are on. ain't it a little strange that every single one of us is wrong and only you are right?


Well known and popular and all powerful huh. And here I've been thinking the same about you and how you flit from one subject to another with the attention span of a gnat reveling in your false sense of grandeur while scheming and blaming everything on me.

Now who's name calling and agitating? Attention span of a gnat? false sense of grandeur? Are you off the meds or something?

Those parts of articles I posted went right over your head and I'm sorry about that but Bob is wrong about 8 gpm/cuft and something about control valve flow rate pressure loss. I.E. his 8 gpm/cuft in a 2.0 cuft softener (16 gpm) is going to allow serious hardness leakage (over 1 gpg) because 16 gpm is way over the constant SFR gpm of 2.0 cuft of any kind of resin. And the OP talking about buying a twin tank softener should not believe 16 gpm per tank. You can get into that in the articles where Chub talks about bed depths and such.

I stopped trying to read and decipher your sizing assertations a long time ago. As I said before, I've been sizing, installing and servicing equipment far longer than you have.


Not reading my posts is a great idea, y'all will feel better but listen, what I say as far as sizing equipment, that's not an opinion, that is accurate and free information. Now I understand your not being able to follow it but still, put the adult beverages down and you could learn something or don't read my posts, it's your choice.

And now you are accusing me of drinking, nice. Thanks but no, I can learn nothing about sizing from you, drink or no drink. Rember, it is only you that asserts your information is accurate, though it is free LOL

[Gary Slusser]

So far as I know there is no law that says a Clack OEM/Distributor can sell wholesale only.

Maybe I should have said state or federal regs but... you not believing me proves you simply don't know how businesses do business.

I challenge you to provide a specific legal citation to back up your post.

In the absence of a specific citation we will have to conclude this is just another bit of hot air and misinformation.

LOL, just yesterday a guy 10 miles from an OEM/Distributor's location (they shipped his softener to him) called me asking if he could go in and buy a replacement for a Clack plumbing connector elbow he cross threaded.

I gave him the phone number and told him to call and ask for the manager Norm and if they sell retail which as far as I know they couldn't. He called and he was informed that they can not sell retail but if I placed the order and it showed up on his terminal before closing time he was welcome to come pick the part up, which I did, the home office entered the order and he picked up the part on his way home from work at 3:something.

Now you ask for "a specific citation" which you know I can't produce another company's "citation" and there is no "citation", it is the way the company was set up originally with the filings with the states they were going to do business in and the FTC IIRC, and that's the reason why you asked for "a specific citation".

I could give you the phone number and contact name at that location but I don't think I will, I'll let you assume you're right and I'm wrong.

I could give you my customer's name and phone but I don't think I'll do that either but again you're wrong Bob, most/many OEM/Distributors of water treatment equipment are not allowed to sell retail because they aren't set up to, usually because they chose not to and thereby due to state regs. And that is why they are extremely difficult to impossible to find in phone books. They only advertise to dealers and mostly only in our industry specific magazines or by direct mail to established dealers they can find in yellow pages etc..

So don't expect any direct mail from any anytime soon Bob.

[Bob999]

Maybe I should have said state or federal regs but... you not believing me proves you simply don't know how businesses do business.

So far as I know there is no federal or state regulation that says a Clack OEM/Distributor can sell wholesale only.

I challenge you to provide a specific legal citation to back up your post.

In the absence of a specific citation we will have to conclude this is just another bit of hot air and misinformation.

As to your (incorrect) assertion that I don't know how business is done--you don't know anything about my background, education and experience and are in no position to make statements about what I know or don't know.

But I will tell you that I believe that I know a substantial amount more about the law and regulations and how businesses do business than you have demonstrated that you know.

[Gary Slusser]

So far as I know there is no federal or state regulation that says a Clack OEM/Distributor can sell wholesale only.

Bob I fully agree that you you don't know anything about this. As I said it depends on how the business was set up originally with government entities.

Last winter in Quartzite AZ we went into a place that uses bulk material to make sun screens/shading for RVs, house porches etc.. We wanted pieces for inside our large high driver and passenger windows in our motor home and for across the top of the two very large front windows to be used instead of our sun visors.

We spent maybe 20 minutes selecting the material from a number of qualities/types/weights and colors and finally gave the lady (the owner) our measurements and were told they couldn't make the pieces or sell the material that way because the state of AZ and the town of Quartzite did not allow them to make that style screening or sell that type of screening.

They found out about this when someone from the local or state government showed up 3+ years ago which led to them having to pay a hefty fine that damned near put them out of business. They have been struggling to stay in business since then. They had not been following regs/rules etc. for 10 years. They are only allowed to manufacture the externally mounted and removable full frontal pieces that cover the very large front windows or both windows with one piece or, the same style for side windows or a single large piece for under awnings on RVs or overhangs on houses etc..

[Bob999]

Bob I fully agree that you you don't know anything about this. As I said it depends on how the business was set up originally with government entities.

It is nice that you can agree with yourself because you are the only one who sees it that way. You continue to demonstrate your ignorance about the law, state regulations, and how business does business by posting extraneous information about how states regulate motor vehicles when the subject is the sale of water softeners.

I realize you probably aren't able to comprehend the above comments but I wanted to post them for those who can. It is unfortunate that it is not possible to have a reasonable discussion with you but you are so certain that what ever you think or believe is the righteous truth that you simply can't see that you are frequently wrong, misinformed, or simply don't understand things.

The current demonstration of your condition is the Clack action in telling its OEM/Distributors to stop sales to internet sellers (like you) who did not meet certain conditions. This was done pursuant to the "Control Valve Agreement" according to the Clack memo you posted. The "Control Valve Agreement" is a matter between Clack and it's OEM/Distributors. It is not the result of or pursuant to any state or federal law or regulation.