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Thread: Kerdi board

  1. #46
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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    Default Kerdi Bord Photo's - Testing Data covering water wicking (how to use Kerdi Fix)

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  2. #47
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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    Default Is Kerdi Board Waterproof with a slice in it? No it is not.

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  3. #48
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    If you're going to make a fishbowl out of the stuff, seal any surface penetrations, just like you would if it was a through hole, then, even John should be happy, but it still won't leak if you don't. But, you never have Kerdiboard in a finished assembly where it is sitting in liquid water, there's always something on top of it like tile and thinset, or maybe Kerdiband if there's a seam, or KerdiFix. IOW, there's no water pressure, and the foam (aided by the surface layers) will prevent it from leaking.

    FWIW, the melting point of polystyrene is 464-degrees F, which was why in a previous post I thought it should survive up to 212-degrees. It seems that is gets plastic at a much lower temperature (but does not melt), and in combination with the bonding of the reinforcement bonding layer, for safety, the max recommended temp for KerdiBoard is much lower. I'll also point out, I indicated I'd neither seen nor been trained on the stuff when this thread came out, and was basing my comments on the datasheets. One reason why I went to the factory for their training class, so I could better understand the product and its potential uses, which John has not done.

    Another FWIW, in a steam room, if you can see a cloud/fog, what you're seeing is not steam! Steam is a colorless, odorless vapor and at standard sea level pressures is at LEAST 212-degrees F, and could be many hundreds of degrees hotter - there really isn't any upper limit to how hot you can make steam until it gets so hot, it breaks the hydrogen-oxygen bond and no longer is a water molecule (and that's REALLY hot)! From a practical viewpoint, there's no need for excessive temperatures in a steam room. Below 212, what you see is not steam, but condensed water droplets, i.e., fog, but it does start out as steam in the generator.
    Last edited by jadnashua; 10-20-2013 at 03:48 PM.
    Jim DeBruycker
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    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  4. #49
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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    Default Melting Temperature of Kerdi Board - How hot can your steam shower be? Answers given

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  5. #50
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    Schluter says the max temp in any use is 70C in the tech data sheet...steam isn't steam until it is a gas, and, you cannot see steam, but the fog associated with a steam shower can still easily exceed the Kerdiboard's specs, as can the supply line. Water doesn't become steam until it is 100C, and once a vapor, it can get MUCH higher. The actual plastic doesn't melt until it gets to that 464, but that doesn't mean it remains the same solid and reliable stable material. And, being a foam, excessive heat could cause the closed cells, full of gas to expand, and create issues as it expands, delaminating, and creating further problems. There was no indication how they sealed any penetrations or how close the steam pipe was to the wall. Being a commercial shower, likely rather large room, ran long hours, and the steam supply was probably quite a bit hotter than on a residential one to be able to make suffient steam. If you know anything, you know steam can become very hot, a lot hotter than the 100C required at sea level to make it in the first place.

    FWIW, the data sheet says 70C, whereas the (newer) Shower manual states 79C, so lessons learned can revise the acceptable use, or one of them is incorrect. But, the KerdiBoard tech sheet says to follow the Shower INstall manual, and nowhere in there under steam showers does it say KerdiBoard is acceptable - it only lists Kerdi and KerdiDS, depending on the local perm ratings required. IOW, following Schluter's directions, KerdiBoard is not designed nor supposed to be used in a steam shower...that it failed when used in one is not a reflection of it's proper use or capabilities.

    Use the material as designed and intended, and it works. No guarantees when you do not.
    Last edited by jadnashua; 10-20-2013 at 10:33 PM.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  6. #51
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

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  7. #52
    DIY Senior Member guy48065's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jadnashua View Post

    FWIW, the melting point of polystyrene is 464-degrees F, which was why in a previous post I thought it should survive up to 212-degrees.
    Is that the melting point of polystyrene FOAM? Because I have built small temperature test chambers with the stuff (handy) and seen it shrink back at as little as 200F. According to Wikipedia (I know...) the solid polystyrene melts & flows above 212F. Foam would surely be less...
    Last edited by guy48065; 10-21-2013 at 07:34 AM.
    Romeo and Atlanta, MI

  8. #53
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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    Default Does Kerdi Board melt at 200 degrees? - Good Question

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    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

  9. #54
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by guy48065 View Post
    Is that the melting point of polystyrene FOAM? Because I have built small temperature test chambers with the stuff (handy) and seen it shrink back at as little as 200F. According to Wikipedia (I know...) the solid polystyrene melts & flows above 212F. Foam would surely be less...
    The solid polystyrene material becomes liquid at that temp (the raw material before it is made into foam). It can easily become unstable at lower temperatures, and Schluter says the acceptable upper limit on their product is 70C, or 158F, if I did my conversion math in my head right.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  10. #55
    DIY Senior Member guy48065's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jadnashua View Post
    The solid polystyrene material becomes liquid at that temp (the raw material before it is made into foam). It can easily become unstable at lower temperatures, and Schluter says the acceptable upper limit on their product is 70C, or 158F, if I did my conversion math in my head right.
    Sounds a whole lot closer than the 464F you previously posted.
    Romeo and Atlanta, MI

  11. #56
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    Lots of plastics get soft far before they melt. In a foam, you also have the entrapped gas that expands, distorting things. You can easily search this yourself...https://www.google.com/search?source...revid=77940401
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  12. #57
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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    Default Lets just say you use Kerdi Board

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    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

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