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Thread: Kerdi board

  1. #31
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    The steam line should be insulated. It should not be in direct contact with the material. This is for two reasons: to keep the line hot possibly making the surface dangerously hot to occupants, and to preserve the material. A steam line run in direct contact with any surface that is tiled could put some really bad stresses on the ceramic or stone tile on the surface - especially in a commercial steam room that may run extended hours. It could get hot enough to burn someone and be a safety hazard as well.

    Steam is the vapor created by boiling water. Water boils at 212 at sea level. Steam CAN be significantly hotter. Since it originated from boiling water, which was 212, on the outlet to only be 110, most of it would have condensed, and you won't have much steam...saturated air, certainly, but not steam. So, you could have lots of heated mist at 110, but not steam. The mist is liquid droplets of water, steam is a colorless vapor. The mist forms when the steam hits the cooler air of the steam room. So, how does a steam generator making at least 212-degree steam vapor at the source, ensure it is only 110 at the outlet?

    The foam won't melt at 212, but the rest of the structure might have problems. I did find in the spec sheet a maximum of 158-degrees F - missed that the first time through.

    No idea how hot the actual steam pipe got, but it wouldn't surprise me if it exceeded that if ran uninsulated against the back. Depending on where the steam generator is located, it's likely to exceed that for at least some of the run, if not all.
    Last edited by jadnashua; 04-18-2012 at 05:00 PM. Reason: found the temp spec.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  2. #32
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

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  3. #33
    Homeowner
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    Everyone that has common sense knows that a paper based products are inferior to a cement product. Mr.Whipple........it is very difficult to defeat "stupid".....I have defeated it in the past but it takes many posts......as your finding out.

  4. #34
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    Since I've never seen Kerdiboard except in pictures, I don't know if it has a code stamped on it like some food products, or other items for batch control. If it does have a printed number on it, the manufacturer would probably know how to decode it.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  5. #35
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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    Posts removed by John Whipple
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    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

  6. #36
    DIYer, not in the trades LLigetfa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hackney plumbing View Post
    ...it is very difficult to defeat "stupid"....
    One of my favorite quotes:
    Strange as it may seem, no amount of learning can cure stupidity, and formal education positively fortifies it.
    Stephen Vizinczey

  7. #37

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    The stupidest I have ever seen are women managers, those, in jobs, where an education is not necessary and they thrive on what they seemingly see, as power. They fear losing it for then, they go back to flipping burgers. Might be the same for men managers, but, I know for sure, it is with women. Those with the least amount of education has the most need to prove their self-worth in their job.

    This is why I stay in the man's world, women on the whole has not evolved enough for me.
    Last edited by Cookie; 04-20-2012 at 04:13 PM.

  8. #38
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

  9. #39

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    Those are words spoken in truth. I am 58 years old, have worked a lifetime in various positions ( ones needing education & diplomas, and then, others you just got to show up) and given a choice of the sexes to work with or for, I definitely, would pick the males.

    Oh, and your comment about they would slap you upside the head? That is my point.

    This is basically very true,
    "Strange as it may seem, no amount of learning can cure stupidity, and formal education positively fortifies it."
    Stephen Vizinczey
    Last edited by Cookie; 04-22-2012 at 05:59 AM.

  10. #40
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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    Default Looking at the new Kerdi Board Niche - Prefabricated shower niches from Schluter

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    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

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  11. #41
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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    Default Kerdi Board Waterproofing Facts

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    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

  12. #42
    Nuclear Engineer nukeman's Avatar
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    I'm not sure what you have against Jim, but it seems to me that he is correct. In the linked document (as well as this one: http://www.schluterkerdiboard.com/me...OCHURE-ENG.pdf), it clearly mentions that the fleece outer layer is for bonding with the thinset. The reinforcement layer is going to be there more for shipping and during install. Remember that the core of this product is extruded polystyrene. This is the same stuff that you find in pink or blue foam panels for insulation (XPS). When you buy standard XPS, it may also have a reinforcement layer (clear plastic, typically) to prevent damage during transport and install. XPS is vapor retardant as well as waterproof. The perm rating for standard XPS is in the ballpark of what your link mentions, so it is clear that the outer layer does not add to the perm rating.

    Essentially, you could use standard XPS in place of the KerdiBoard, but would lack the outer layer to make a good bond with the thinset. XPS on its own wouldn't provide a good bond with thinset.

    As to your question on the corners, it calls for Kerdi-Band with a min. 2" overlap.

    Since XPS is waterproof, it wouldn't make sense for them to cover it with Kerdi (or similar). Why waterproof a waterproof material?

  13. #43
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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    Default Help! - The orange layer on Kerdi Board is not waterproof !! Water wicking everywhere

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    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

  14. #44
    Nuclear Engineer nukeman's Avatar
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    In the case of standard XPS, the film is to give it additional damage protection. Go by the insulation aisle the next time you are in HD, Lowes, etc. The thinner stuff (1" and under) is typically trashed (especially when there is no film). It can still get cracked with the film, but it is less likely and the film all the pieces together if it does get damaged.

    For the "30% less strength", what type of measurement are you talking about?

    With tile installed: 1) it should never be soaked. 2) the tile and thinset will stiffen it up.

    If the outer layer was waterproof, I would think that:

    1. it would be called out as a feature
    2. they would have bonded Kerdi to the board instead of another product

    I have no connection with John Bridge (and have nothing against him or his site). I will visit the JB site on occasion, but that is about it. Like Terry's forum (and others) there is good and bad info. However, Terry's is really a plumbing forum, so you come here for plumbing. JB is tile, so it makes sense to go there for tile info (whether you agree or not). The fact is there is more than one way to set tile just as there is more than one way to run drain lines. If the JB site had one plumber answering questions, would I go there to ask plumbing questions or would I come here where I can get input from many plumbers? Same goes for tile. If I had a question, I would research and get as much info as I could from as many sources as I could.

    I haven't messed with KerdiBoard myself (I like Kerdi + cbu), but just because I haven't used it, doesn't mean that I would automatically dismiss it from future projects. Depending on my needs, I would research the options and see what would work the best for that application.

    Anyway, post up what they respond with. However, based on what I have seen, I suspect that Jim is correct. I know that XPS is waterproof and will provide the perm rating. The outer layer is just for bonding as far as I can tell.

  15. #45
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

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