Help Programming a Fleck 7000 SXT

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TWEAK

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I think get Gary's comments. As I read them, he's saying that if you set the capacity and the salt dose both to reduced numbers that are consistent with your actual usage for 7-9 days, the system will regenerate based on the meter every 7-9 days... if you program in the FULL capacity of the softener and the corresponding large salt dose, then you will seldom if ever regen based on usage -- you will be using the #days default. You have basically reverted to a timer system rather than a usage-metered system, which wastes salt.
 

Gary Slusser

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And setting the capacity so the unit regenerates like every 7-9 days means the resin is regenerated (with less salt) based on actual capacity used, more frequently than every 15 days (requiring much more salt).

Maybe I'm confused here, and maybe you meant to word this differently but as it stands it makes no sense at all.
Yes you are confused, no I didn't mean anything other than what I said, and it makes no sense to you because you don't know how to size or program a softener. You can learn by clicking on the Sizing link in my signature.
 

NHmaster3015

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Thanks, but I long ago stopped caring about your opinion. I have clicked on your link and the information there is presented in just as confusing a manner as your post. Perhaps you could take a college refresher course and learn to write a coherent sentence once in a while.
 

Gary Slusser

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Thanks, but I long ago stopped caring about your opinion. I have clicked on your link and the information there is presented in just as confusing a manner as your post. Perhaps you could take a college refresher course and learn to write a coherent sentence once in a while.

The max capacity of a softener requires 15 lbs of salt per cuft of resin in the softener.

Now let's say there are 2 people in the house and there is 10 gpg hardness in their water. 60gals per person per day*2 people = 120 gals/day of water use on average. 120 * 10 gpg hardness = 1200 grains of capacity used per day. 1200 * say 8 days between regenerations = 9600 grains rounded to 10K.

Let's say they can use a 9 gpm SFR 1.0 cuft softener. That means you can program for 10K by setting the salt dose to 3.0 lbs per regeneration which would equate to 10,000/10 gpg = a meter setting of 1000 gals between regeneration (yes that's without a reserve) or..... 1000gals/120 gals/day use = a regeneration on average once every 8 days.

Set the softener to the max of 30K in a 1 cuft softener which requires 15 lbs of salt per regeneration and... 30,000/10 = 3000 gals/120 gal/day use = 25 days between regenerations (WAY TOOO LONG for good resin life) BUT, if you look at 30,000/15 lbs we see the salt use (salt efficiency) is 2000 grains of capacity per pound. And the right way of 10,000/3 lbs shows you are getting 3333 grains per pound or, we are using tons less salt than the 30K setting is using; 6 lbs in 24 days compared to 15 lbs every 25 days.

A 1.0 cuft softener is usually called a 32K. Regardless of the brand name or cuft size, you lose 2K of regenerated capacity per cuft of resin the first time you use new resin; it can not be regenerated.

So your 32K becomes a 30K, 64K is a 60K, 48K = 45K etc. etc. ONLY IF you salt dose at 15 lbs/cuft of resin.

Which is a salt efficiency of 30,000/15= 2000 grains/lb. It's like terrible fuel mileage caused by you just having to be in the passing/left lane passing everyone you can with your foot in the flue injectors from one stop sign or red light to to next, then you complain about all the fuel your Subaru uses and swear you''ll be the first to buy the Government Motors (GM) VOLT as soon as they hit your local dealership.

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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Capacity calculation: # of People times 60 gals/person/day (or whatever gallons you think but 60 is usually right on) + all extra softened water use in gallons/day; IE horses etc. multiplied by the compensated hardness = total grains/day. Grains/day * 8 (days) for a once every 7-9 days regeneration (if less than 5 ppm iron; 4 days if you have over 5 ppm of iron) plus a day of reserve capacity (not needed for twin tank models or the Clack WS-1 CS version) = the total grains of capacity you need. Then from the chart below find the capacity at the best salt dose that covers your total grains needed. With twin tank softeners you must subtract the total gallons used per each regeneration because they use softened water for the regeneration.[/FONT]​



[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Example: 3 people *60 = 180 + 10 gals/day for a horse = total 190 gals/day, * 19 gpg compensated hardness = 3610 total grains/day. Then 3610 * 8 days = 28880 total grains needed which should be rounded up to 29 or 30k. Using the salt dose capacity chart below, you find the volume of resin that produces 29,000 or 30,000 grains of capacity using 6 lb/cuft of resin. That gives you great salt efficiency and covers your capacity requirement. As long as the constant SFR gpm of that size softener is correct, you have a properly sized softener with great salt efficiency. If your peak demand gpm is greater than the constant SFR gpm for that size softener, you would use the size the constant SFR dictates and then adjust the salt dose and thereby the capacity.[/FONT]​




[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The 6 lb/cuft salt dose gives you 3333 grains of capacity per lb of salt used rather than the maximum salt dose per cuft of 15 lb which generates only 2000 grains of capacity per lb of salt. If you use potassium chloride instead of regular softener salt (sodium chloride) and you are using low salt doses (say 8 lb/cuft) below, you have to increase the salt dose by roughly 27-30%.[/FONT]​

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big dripper

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Set the softener to the max of 30K in a 1 cuft softener which requires 15 lbs of salt per regeneration and... 30,000/10 = 3000 gals/120 gal/day use = 25 days between regenerations (WAY TOOO LONG for good resin life) BUT, if you look at 30,000/15 lbs we see the salt use (salt efficiency) is 2000 grains of capacity per pound. And the right way of 10,000/3 lbs shows you are getting 3333 grains per pound or, we are using tons less salt than the 30K setting is using; 6 lbs in 24 days compared to 15 lbs every 25 days.

Not sure if I missed something here. If you use 3lb per regeneration and it goes 24 days, wouldn't that be 9lb.? Are you saying that 3333gr/lb is a good setting? High efficiency? What would the settings be for a 4000 or 5000 gr/lb setting?
 
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NHmaster3015

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Gary, I was sizing, selling, installing and servicing filtration equipment when you were still an insurance salesman. Although you would like us to believe that nobody in the world understands and can zize equipment, believe me, we can and do. As for reading and comprehending your post, I must admit that I did not give it much of my time because, as I just said, I've been doing this for many many years.
 

big dripper

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Gary, I was sizing, selling, installing and servicing filtration equipment when you were still an insurance salesman. Although you would like us to believe that nobody in the world understands and can zize equipment, believe me, we can and do. As for reading and comprehending your post, I must admit that I did not give it much of my time because, as I just said, I've been doing this for many many years.

I was just wondering if 3333g/p was considered an efficient, or high efficient setting.
 

Jadnashua

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Not sure if I missed something here. If you use 3lb per regeneration and it goes 24 days, wouldn't that be 9lb.? Are you saying that 3333gr/lb is a good setting? High efficiency? What would the settings be for a 4000 or 5000 gr/lb setting?

Yes, 9# (3*3) for the 24-days (at 8, 16, and day 24). The grains/pound is still correct, and it is still less salt for equivalent soft water. Gary mistyped, I think. The end result is while you could run the resin into the ground, i.e., down to zero capacity left after 24-days, it is not the most efficient way to do it. My guess, and this is an educated guess, is that similar to batteries, it's not the best way to get longevity with the resin to run it down to zero each cycle. If it started fully recharged, and you used say a third, and then recharged that third, if there were occasional guests, or heavy water usage, you'd probably handle that better as well rather than running it down fully.

There are multiple ways to program any system. Some work better than others. SOme make the system last longer. Some create operational problems (like salt bridges, or hard water bleed through). Some are more efficient in the use of expendables. You can handle the operation many ways. Some solutions work most of the time, some work all of the time. Some people can accept it not working all of the time. Lack of good flow from the well could have consequences, and some ignore that to their peril. A well that can change based on the water table needs possibly some extra margin. Each situation is different (but similar). Some want maximum efficiency. So, depending on your use patterns, your tolerance for occasional bleed through, and costs, your priorities may differ and your programming solution may vary. But, quibbling is counter productive. There are consequences to the decisions you make, and IF you are aware of them, and they are acceptable to you, then that's an okay solution. Many people don't care or want to understand what can be a complex situation, and want THE solution...well, there isn't ONE. Being educated as to the consequences of any desicion, to me, is worth the hassle of the investigation. To some, they just want an answer, no explanations, no what ifs, no consequences.

Might I suggest, when anyone provides an answer, they explain the consequences of that solution. I think Gary does this more than others, and because of that explanation and the fact that it can take a bit to explain, people then get confused. Personally, I generally don't have an issue with it, but then I've spent my whole life in highly technical things - missile and radar systems require attention to detail, and little tolerance for failure or problems. Most things in life don't have as severe consequences if they don't work properly. But, that is not to say that some things aren't complex.

We spend too much time bashing each other, and need to look at the solution and the benefits and consequences. More than one way will work. Point out where your solution works and why. Don't bash the others if they don't do it 'your' way. It's likely both can work, and you may not have considered the consequences, or they just aren't important to you since they don't happen often. Just like all of the codes we have for plumbing...most stuff will work fine if you take a shortcut. It only gives you grief under certain (unforseen, at least to you) circumstances...and if you don't do it to code, it could fail. Soft water isn't as critical, but some people have no tolerance for 'different'.

Let's try to keep this more civil. If you keep poking, eventually, that person will poke back. Keep it civil, and expain why and the consequences of that why, and then people can choose their tolerance level for themselves to the possible consequences.
 

big dripper

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It is an efficient setting but higher efficiencies are possible, depending on your water conditions.

See p. 4 in the linked document. Use the column for P-100.

http://www.caitechnologies.com/images/PDFs/specs/SST60.pdf

Thanks. Isn't SST60 a specialty resin? Standard or fine mesh resins are more common and most dealers offer either of those. California requires 4000 gr/lb and there are softeners that exceed 5000 gr/lb. I wouldn't really consider 3333 very highly efficient.
 

Bob999

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Thanks. Isn't SST60 a specialty resin? Standard or fine mesh resins are more common and most dealers offer either of those. California requires 4000 gr/lb and there are softeners that exceed 5000 gr/lb. I wouldn't really consider 3333 very highly efficient.

Yes SST-60 is a branded specialty resin. Standard "high capacity" and fine mesh resins are more frequently standard choices at online retailers but a few do also offer SST-60 as a choice and I think most will supply it upon request.

5000 grains per pound of resin is not typically achieved in the real world in my opinion. As you can see from the SST-60 spec sheet it is approached at very low salt dose levels. Even with fine mesh resins it is very difficult to achieve. See spec sheet here:

http://www.reskem.com/pdf/purolite-c100ef.pdf
 

okengr

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Hi,

Wondering if you would be so kind as to help me with some specific settings for my Fleck 7000SXT?

I am on well water and septic tank. Iron is 0.2 ppm, total hardness is 350 ppm. My resin tank is 12"x48" and has 2cf of standard resin. My valve has BLFC of 0.125, DLFC of 3.5 gpm, and Injector is 00. I would like to configure it for as little salt usage as is reasonable. Also, the number of people in the house is usually 4, with 6 on weekends and 10 over the holidays. Is there any reason to change settings if the person load increased for an extended time or does the demand function handle the load inherently?

Thanks so much for your help!
Julian
 

Reach4

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Hi,

Wondering if you would be so kind as to help me with some specific settings for my Fleck 7000SXT?

I am on well water and septic tank. Iron is 0.2 ppm, total hardness is 350 ppm. My resin tank is 12"x48" and has 2cf of standard resin. My valve has BLFC of 0.125, DLFC of 3.5 gpm, and Injector is 00. I would like to configure it for as little salt usage as is reasonable. Also, the number of people in the house is usually 4, with 6 on weekends and 10 over the holidays. Is there any reason to change settings if the person load increased for an extended time or does the demand function handle the load inherently?
When you are expecting a bigger group, look at the gallons remaining. Schedule an early regen if the gallons remaining is not expected to be enough for the crowd. One poke schedules that 2 AM regen. Hold it down for immediate.

The long BD is due to your #00 Injector - Violet

Here is my take on it.
System info (not programmed)
salt lb/cuft : 6 ; A choice ( efficiency vs capacity)
BLFC : 0.125 ; Brine Refill rate GPM
cubic ft resin : 2.0 ; Same as (nominal grains/32,000)
Raw hardness : 22.0 ; including iron etc
Estimated gal/day : 240.0 ; 60 gal per person typical calc
Estimated days each regen : 6.9 ; presuming days each use reserve capacity
Fleck 7000SXT Settings:
DF = Gal ; Units
VT = dF2b ; Downflw/Upflw, Double Backwash dFFF=brine first
CT = Fd ; Meter Delayed regen trigger
C = 40.0 ; capacity in 1000 grains
H = 22 ; Hardness grains after compensation (unknown iron)
RS = cr ; Cr = base reserve on recent experience
CR = 0 ; 0 is default (leave it)
DO = 14 ; Day Override (typ 28 if no iron/Mn)
RT = 2:00 ; Regen time (default 2 AM)
B1 = 8 ; Backwash 1 (minutes)
Bd = 110 ; Brine draw minutes
B2 = 5 ; Backwash 2 (minutes)
RR = 10 ; Rapid Rinse minutes
BF = 32 ; Brine fill minutes
FM = t1.2 (usual) ; t1.2 is default flow meter
 

okengr

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Great! Thanks a lot!

Would it be advisable to change the injector in order to bring down the BD?
 
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