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Thread: Help Programming a Fleck 7000 SXT

  1. #16
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akpsdvan View Post
    Why again are you running at 25% of what the system can do?
    It's kinda like running your vehicle at say 1500 rpm instead of up against the red line but....

    Tell us why you suggest running it at a higher capacity and what the benefit is to him.

    Tweak, wicking takes a fair amount of time because the lower salt must become fully wet before wicking can happen. And salt lids fit so tight they are damned near hermetically sealed. Wicking would only happen with block or pellet type salt.
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  2. #17
    In the Trades Akpsdvan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TWEAK View Post
    I bought the system sized for more people living here. One kid got married, one went off to live at school, one got a job out of the area.... Now it's just me.

    So a 44k unit , that is 12lbs of salt for the 2 cubic foot of resin... and you are running at ?lbs and ?capacity
    Under running on a system is not really good on the resin, it needs to be used,, ie charged and uncharged ..
    One way is setting the capacity and the salt setting and a def day of say 15.. that way if there are people over then the meter or if just you the days will trip it.

  3. #18
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akpsdvan View Post
    So a 44k unit , that is 12lbs of salt for the 2 cubic foot of resin... and you are running at ?lbs and ?capacity
    Under running on a system is not really good on the resin, it needs to be used,, ie charged and uncharged ..
    One way is setting the capacity and the salt setting and a def day of say 15.. that way if there are people over then the meter or if just you the days will trip it.
    I'd like to see the stock regular mesh spec sheet from a resin manufacturer that supports your 44K @ 12 lbs claim. Or where a resin manufacturer says to run resin at max capacity and that to run it at less is bad for resin. BTW, a 2.0 cuft softener is mistakenly called a 64K; the true K is 60K @30 lbs. And setting the capacity so the unit regenerates like every 7-9 days means the resin is regenerated (with less salt) based on actual capacity used, more frequently than every 15 days (requiring much more salt).
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  4. #19
    DIY Member TWEAK's Avatar
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    My unit is 1.5 cu ft of resin, which I understand is "the" amount for a 48k (really 44k ). As Gary points out, the "advertised" numbers seem to frequently be higher (i.e., 48k instead of 44k, 64k instead of 60k etc).

    My understanding is that it isn't recommended to go out to 15 days between regens.... several folks here recommend 7-9 days. I don't remember the exact salt dose without referring back to my notes on the programming but it's around 5 pounds more or less.

    Question is really... is there any reason/advantage to every so often (say, every couple of months) regenerating with a higher salt dose?

  5. #20
    In the Trades Wally Hays's Avatar
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    And setting the capacity so the unit regenerates like every 7-9 days means the resin is regenerated (with less salt) based on actual capacity used, more frequently than every 15 days (requiring much more salt).

    Maybe I'm confused here, and maybe you meant to word this differently but as it stands it makes no sense at all.
    Perception is 3/4 of reality

  6. #21
    DIY Member TWEAK's Avatar
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    I think get Gary's comments. As I read them, he's saying that if you set the capacity and the salt dose both to reduced numbers that are consistent with your actual usage for 7-9 days, the system will regenerate based on the meter every 7-9 days... if you program in the FULL capacity of the softener and the corresponding large salt dose, then you will seldom if ever regen based on usage -- you will be using the #days default. You have basically reverted to a timer system rather than a usage-metered system, which wastes salt.

  7. #22
    In the Trades Wally Hays's Avatar
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    May very well be, yes
    Perception is 3/4 of reality

  8. #23
    DIY Senior Member Bob999's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TWEAK View Post
    Question is really... is there any reason/advantage to every so often (say, every couple of months) regenerating with a higher salt dose?
    No--unless there is a problem.

  9. #24
    DIY Member TWEAK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob999 View Post
    No--unless there is a problem.
    Thanks! That's the answer to the question I was curious about.

  10. #25
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wally Hays View Post
    And setting the capacity so the unit regenerates like every 7-9 days means the resin is regenerated (with less salt) based on actual capacity used, more frequently than every 15 days (requiring much more salt).

    Maybe I'm confused here, and maybe you meant to word this differently but as it stands it makes no sense at all.
    Yes you are confused, no I didn't mean anything other than what I said, and it makes no sense to you because you don't know how to size or program a softener. You can learn by clicking on the Sizing link in my signature.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  11. #26
    In the Trades Wally Hays's Avatar
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    Thanks, but I long ago stopped caring about your opinion. I have clicked on your link and the information there is presented in just as confusing a manner as your post. Perhaps you could take a college refresher course and learn to write a coherent sentence once in a while.
    Perception is 3/4 of reality

  12. #27
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wally Hays View Post
    Thanks, but I long ago stopped caring about your opinion. I have clicked on your link and the information there is presented in just as confusing a manner as your post. Perhaps you could take a college refresher course and learn to write a coherent sentence once in a while.
    The max capacity of a softener requires 15 lbs of salt per cuft of resin in the softener.

    Now let's say there are 2 people in the house and there is 10 gpg hardness in their water. 60gals per person per day*2 people = 120 gals/day of water use on average. 120 * 10 gpg hardness = 1200 grains of capacity used per day. 1200 * say 8 days between regenerations = 9600 grains rounded to 10K.

    Let's say they can use a 9 gpm SFR 1.0 cuft softener. That means you can program for 10K by setting the salt dose to 3.0 lbs per regeneration which would equate to 10,000/10 gpg = a meter setting of 1000 gals between regeneration (yes that's without a reserve) or..... 1000gals/120 gals/day use = a regeneration on average once every 8 days.

    Set the softener to the max of 30K in a 1 cuft softener which requires 15 lbs of salt per regeneration and... 30,000/10 = 3000 gals/120 gal/day use = 25 days between regenerations (WAY TOOO LONG for good resin life) BUT, if you look at 30,000/15 lbs we see the salt use (salt efficiency) is 2000 grains of capacity per pound. And the right way of 10,000/3 lbs shows you are getting 3333 grains per pound or, we are using tons less salt than the 30K setting is using; 6 lbs in 24 days compared to 15 lbs every 25 days.

    A 1.0 cuft softener is usually called a 32K. Regardless of the brand name or cuft size, you lose 2K of regenerated capacity per cuft of resin the first time you use new resin; it can not be regenerated.

    So your 32K becomes a 30K, 64K is a 60K, 48K = 45K etc. etc. ONLY IF you salt dose at 15 lbs/cuft of resin.

    Which is a salt efficiency of 30,000/15= 2000 grains/lb. It's like terrible fuel mileage caused by you just having to be in the passing/left lane passing everyone you can with your foot in the flue injectors from one stop sign or red light to to next, then you complain about all the fuel your Subaru uses and swear you''ll be the first to buy the Government Motors (GM) VOLT as soon as they hit your local dealership.

    **********
    Capacity calculation: # of People times 60 gals/person/day (or whatever gallons you think but 60 is usually right on) + all extra softened water use in gallons/day; IE horses etc. multiplied by the compensated hardness = total grains/day. Grains/day * 8 (days) for a once every 7-9 days regeneration (if less than 5 ppm iron; 4 days if you have over 5 ppm of iron) plus a day of reserve capacity (not needed for twin tank models or the Clack WS-1 CS version) = the total grains of capacity you need. Then from the chart below find the capacity at the best salt dose that covers your total grains needed. With twin tank softeners you must subtract the total gallons used per each regeneration because they use softened water for the regeneration.



    Example: 3 people *60 = 180 + 10 gals/day for a horse = total 190 gals/day, * 19 gpg compensated hardness = 3610 total grains/day. Then 3610 * 8 days = 28880 total grains needed which should be rounded up to 29 or 30k. Using the salt dose capacity chart below, you find the volume of resin that produces 29,000 or 30,000 grains of capacity using 6 lb/cuft of resin. That gives you great salt efficiency and covers your capacity requirement. As long as the constant SFR gpm of that size softener is correct, you have a properly sized softener with great salt efficiency. If your peak demand gpm is greater than the constant SFR gpm for that size softener, you would use the size the constant SFR dictates and then adjust the salt dose and thereby the capacity.




    The 6 lb/cuft salt dose gives you 3333 grains of capacity per lb of salt used rather than the maximum salt dose per cuft of 15 lb which generates only 2000 grains of capacity per lb of salt. If you use potassium chloride instead of regular softener salt (sodium chloride) and you are using low salt doses (say 8 lb/cuft) below, you have to increase the salt dose by roughly 27-30%.

    ***********
    Last edited by Terry; 09-02-2010 at 02:45 PM. Reason: Too many words
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  13. #28
    In the Trades Wally Hays's Avatar
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    Thank you Terry
    Perception is 3/4 of reality

  14. #29
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Now after the editing, is there anything there you can comprehend?
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  15. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Slusser View Post

    Set the softener to the max of 30K in a 1 cuft softener which requires 15 lbs of salt per regeneration and... 30,000/10 = 3000 gals/120 gal/day use = 25 days between regenerations (WAY TOOO LONG for good resin life) BUT, if you look at 30,000/15 lbs we see the salt use (salt efficiency) is 2000 grains of capacity per pound. And the right way of 10,000/3 lbs shows you are getting 3333 grains per pound or, we are using tons less salt than the 30K setting is using; 6 lbs in 24 days compared to 15 lbs every 25 days.
    Not sure if I missed something here. If you use 3lb per regeneration and it goes 24 days, wouldn't that be 9lb.? Are you saying that 3333gr/lb is a good setting? High efficiency? What would the settings be for a 4000 or 5000 gr/lb setting?
    Last edited by big dripper; 09-03-2010 at 02:35 AM. Reason: additional questions

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