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Thread: tamper-proof angle stops...argh!

  1. #1
    DIY Junior Member mylifeisazoo's Avatar
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    Default tamper-proof angle stops...argh!

    ok...after much rigarmarole, i have discovered what this shut off valve is called. a tamper-proof angle stop. mine is rusted to heck. some yahoo put these in probably 35 years ago. how can i tamper with this tamper-proof shut off valve so i can shut it off?
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  2. #2
    Plumbing Contractor for 49 years johnjh2o1's Avatar
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    If it is 35 yrs old it wouldn't turn off anyway. Some required a key others have a screwdriver slot.

    John

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    Master Plumber Redwood's Avatar
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    I don't hold high hopes for any angle stop that hasn't been operated in 35 years to possibly work...

    You have several problems that I have read in one of your other postings on the net....

    You have a hotel/motel where the main does not fully shut off and you have many of these stop valves that don't operate.

    Your best option is to hire a plumber...

  4. #4
    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
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    YOU get a "key" with a square opening to rotate the valve's stem. A "4 way hose bibb handle" usually has one opening that works.

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    DIY Junior Member mylifeisazoo's Avatar
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    ok. looks like i'm going to have to explain myself even further. i live in a very isolated area of vancouver island. (harrisonscove.com) i get internet because of satellites, not a phone wire or cable cord. i have to make my own power because there is no hydro here. i am on my own. a plumber is at least a week away, and that's if i choose to pay through the nose for him. what i need is a fix, not a plumber. so now, is there a way to loosen that screw? i have tried wd40, ground out a larger surface for my screwdriver, heated the angle stop to possibly work it open...or a i doomed to go to the mainland and grab whatever i can to fix this problem? any help over and above that which i have already recieved will be appreciated. thank you.

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    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    Sucks to be isolated sometimes.

    We normally replace old shutoffs if we can't move the stems. Is it compression or threaded?

    Does the "hood" unthread which would give you better access to the stem?
    I would make sure you have the main off if you are tweaking with it. Or at least locate if in case you have a flood.

  7. #7
    DIY Junior Member mylifeisazoo's Avatar
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    as far as i can tell, from loosening other valves, is that it is threaded. the "hood" is solid tight. i am able to shut off the main, but this is the crux of my problem. it doesn't shut off completely. do i shut the main, cut the valve off, try the bread ball technique? or do i try to loosen the "screw", and then remove the toilet. i haven't had much in the way of luck with the "bread ball technique", and the "shark bites" proposal i have recieved means going to the mainland. as far as being isolated, the tourists love it, for me, it is nothing but work. my wife is the "julie mccoy", i'm scotty from star trek. thanks

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    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    If it is threaded, the water doesn't need to be completely off to replace it, but it will be messy. Put a really good coat of pipe dope on the inside of the new valve, take the old one off, and as quick as you can, thread the new one back on. Depending on how much the main valve leaks, and how many valves you have open to reduce the pressure and flow to this one, would determine how much it leaked out before the new one was threaded on.

    Is the water from a public water supply, or a well? If you are self-contained, there must be some way to shut it down. Might be the time to replace or repair the shutoffs throughout the place while it is down...is there an end-of-season? Start planning now.
    Jim DeBruycker
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    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

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    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    Sometimes you can open something up that is lower to drain the building down to a lower point. Sometimes that point can be at the meter box or the pump house.
    Don't bother with bread. That doesn't work for pipes under pressure. That only works if the shutoff works.

    Since you have have a threaded stop, replacement by threading and rethreading a new one is an option.

  10. #10
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    One caution...assuming it is threaded, it's probably on a threaded nipple. The other end may unscrew when trying to remove it...this would mean it's now leaking into the wall. As Terry suggested, if the flow isn't too great, and there's any elevation differences in the units, if you can open those that are lower, you may drain off enough to prevent water from getting to that unit until the main is turned back on. Tough to do while you may have numerous people wanting the water on, though.

    There is a tool designed to install a new shutoff while under pressure. If you really can't shut the whole system down, you might want to bite the bullet to have one of those installed. I supposed you could do it yourself. I don't remember the name of the thing, but it basically starts by finding a suitable location. The pipe needs to be clean on the outside. You clamp the sleeved body of the thing around the pipe (internal gaskets make that water tight), then the cutter goes through an opening on the top of the sleeve. It has o-rings to prevent water leaking as you cut through. As you continue to go through, the valve mechanism is attached to the cutter and slides in place, then you anchor it in place from the bottom of the new hole you made through the pipe on the other side of the sleeve, and you're done. Probably cheaper than paying a plumber to come to your island. You may be able to then install building shutoffs that work as needed, since the main now can be shut off, and further isolate things so as to not inconvenience the guests, or if you can get to the supply to each building, do those as needed until you have them all. Since this valve is more expensive, it might be better to do the complex main, then use regular ones on the individual branches to the buildings, if possible, but that would be up to you to decide what is more cost effective verses the inconvenience.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  11. #11
    Journeyman & Gas Fitter Doherty Plumbing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mylifeisazoo View Post
    ok. looks like i'm going to have to explain myself even further. i live in a very isolated area of vancouver island. (harrisonscove.com) i get internet because of satellites, not a phone wire or cable cord. i have to make my own power because there is no hydro here. i am on my own. a plumber is at least a week away, and that's if i choose to pay through the nose for him. what i need is a fix, not a plumber. so now, is there a way to loosen that screw? i have tried wd40, ground out a larger surface for my screwdriver, heated the angle stop to possibly work it open...or a i doomed to go to the mainland and grab whatever i can to fix this problem? any help over and above that which i have already recieved will be appreciated. thank you.
    Hello,

    If you are on an island like that without Hydro I'm going to also assume that you don't have a municipal water system feeding your place either. So you're probably on a pump system, correct? If you are then just simply kill the breaker to the pump. You shouldn't have to worry about a shutoff valve by doing this.

  12. #12
    DIY Junior Member mylifeisazoo's Avatar
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    shut the pump off! why the f*%k didn't i think of that?! what i did was bypass the whole bathroom. i shut the main and did like you folks said, the bathroom isbasically the lowest point, so i circumvented that whole place and resoldered so that i skip that room altogether as well as another bathroom, but hey...no more toilet issue. so i am rerouting my guests to an alternate (albeit more "dated" bathroom) and i'm running to the mainland to see if i can get one of those things that jadnashua mentioned. terry, jadnashua and dohertyplumbing....thanks for your help and i'll keep you posted.

  13. #13
    DIY Junior Member mylifeisazoo's Avatar
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    ok. so i'm done. i've repaired all i'm gonna repair for now. i fixed the toilet issue and rerouted the plumbing back to normal. the main drip will just have to stay there. i'll just turn off the pump from now on as a work around. thanks for the help guys, and this winter i will replace all those g#$%^mn tamper proofs.

  14. #14
    Master Plumber Redwood's Avatar
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    When you go to replace all of them I would consider getting the 1/4 turn variety...
    They will stand a better chance of working when you need to use them in the future.

    http://www.brasscraft.com/Products.aspx?Id=203

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