Clack WS1 Programming Recomendations

[farmboy101]

Res Care (same as Res Up) is available delivered to the door for $16 per gallon. The recommended maintenance use of Res Care is 1-2 oz per cubic foot so for a 2 cubic foot softener the cost per treatment is 25 - 50 cents.

I get Pro Res Care by the gallon 5 minutes from home for $14 Canadian. The dispenser cost $22 with the softener. I dont think that it is very expensive as long as it works to keep the resin clean of iron etc.

[Bob999]

As I posted in the previous thread the difference between the various Clack WS1 heads is in the programming and programming features. If you go to the Clack web site there are manuals for each of the versions and you can see how the programming process and options are different. With the CS version of the electronics the times for the various elements of the regeneration cycle are chosen by entering a P code--P1 or P2 etc. The EE version of the valve provides the greatest programming flexibility because the time for each element of the regeneration is entered directly.

Go here to see the various manuals:

http://www.clackcorp.com/water.htm

[farmboy101]

You should add 2-3 gallons of water now before the first regeneration because the instructions you have forget that your refill water volume will not be above the Air Check line on the brine pick up. Most of it will be below the line and unable to be used. That's because they didn't tell you to add water up to the height of the Air Check line on the brine pick up. So most of the Refill water will be below the Air Check line and not be able to be used. That means the first regen won't get the lbs of salt you want and all the 18K or what capacity you have used by the next regeneration won't be regenerated and you'll be running at a deficit from then on. Which can lead to hardness leakage.

Thanks Gary for the information on prefilling the brine tank.

[Gary Slusser]

Until you provide a souce for your numbers it is only your assertion and you assertion is not supported by resin manufacturers data that says the ability to treat is determined by the volume of the resin. The specification for resins is published as data per cubic foot of resin--not by bed depth (although that may be a consideration) and not by tank diameter or cross section.

So put up your supporting data or we will conclude you are the one who is posting incorrect information.

The spec sheets show 1-5 gpm/cuft. You say 8 gpm/cuft, provide your source to substantiate that figure.

[Gary Slusser]

Here is what I have. I was told that it was the CS version. The tank is 12x52. The packing slip says WS1MI. Does that mean anything??

M1 means nothing to me. As I think I said, your programming says it is the original version. I can tell by the dn in the programming. The CS version manual on the Clack web site has CS on the front and the programming asks for a P number, yours doesn't.

[Gary Slusser]

I get Pro Res Care by the gallon 5 minutes from home for $14 Canadian. The dispenser cost $22 with the softener. I dont think that it is very expensive as long as it works to keep the resin clean of iron etc.

How do you control the dose?

[Bob999]

Yes my typo of 18 gpm above should have been 16 gpm (8gpm/cuft * 2cuft =16gpm; I was thinking of the constant SFR of a 2.5cuft, 18 gpm) for his 2.0 cuft. So you are still wrong.

The reason you are wrong is due to going from a 9" diameter tank for a 1.0 cuft to a 10" diameter tank for a 1.5 cuft to a 12" diameter tank for a 2.0 cuft etc. etc. you are spreading the column out without adding much depth to the column. It is the depth of the column that counts for constant SFR Bob, not the width. You can check that out with any resin manufacturer.

It is time for another fact check to see of Slusser's assertions stand up to examination. Slusser says that "It is the depth of the column that counts for constant SFR ..."

On his website and in this forum in various posts he asserts the following figures (column depth is my addition):

1 ft3 softener (9 inch diameter tank) SFR=9 Column depth = 27"
1.25 ft3 softener (10 inch diameter tank) SFR=10 Column depth = 27.5"
1.5 ft3 softener (10 inch diameter tank) SFR = 12 Column depth = 33"
2 ft3 softener (12 inch diameter tank) SFR = 13 Column depth = 30.5"
2.5 ft3 softener (13 inch diameter tank) SFR = 18 Column depth = 32.5"

Note: Column depth is computed assuming gravel underbed is used and fills the hemisphere at the bottom of the tank and neglects the displacement of the tube.

Now if Slusser's assertion that column depth is what counts it would be expected that the softener with the greatest column depth would have the greatest SFR and the softener with the least column depth would have the least SFR. That is clearly NOT the case as the data above shows.

So once again an assertion by Slusser fails the fact check.

[Bob999]

The spec sheets show 1-5 gpm/cuft. You say 8 gpm/cuft, provide your source to substantiate that figure.

The spec sheet for standard high capacity resin shows performance for flows within a range that extends up to approximately 5 gal per minute per cubic foot of resin. The performance at 5 gallon per minute exceeds what is necessary or desired for most residential installations. The specification sheets also provide data as to the degradation in performance in the form of increased hardness leakage as flows increase above 5 gallon per minute per cubic foot of resin. Using that information I have determined that 8 gallon per minute per cubic foot of performance provides what I consider to be satisfactory performance.

What is important is that it is the VOLUME of resin in relation to the volume of water flowing through the the resin bed that determines performance (hardness leakage) provided that the bed depth is within the specified RANGE. To put it another way bed depth is very much a secondary consideration within a defined range.

[farmboy101]

How do you control the dose?

The drip wick rated is at 12cc. Im sure the manufacturer(ResUP) must have calculated the various doses for the 12cc and 30cc wicks as those are the only 2 sizes I have seen listed. I was supplied a 12cc wick with the 2 cuft resin bed so I hope somebody knew what the hell they were doing when they sent it. I can also add the cleaner directly into the brine tank as per the instructions on the bottle. I have never seen Iron Out locally. Where do you get it down there, at a grocery or hardware store?? You seem to opposed to an automatic feeder system that uses resup or the like. Are they not as effective as Iron out?

[Akpsdvan]

Drip feeders have been around for years and yes they do work.
If you can get the ResUp locally but not the iron out then use the Resup.. You might have to add a little extra say once a year to the brine tanks brine well, but you will learn your system and what you need to do get the best out of it.
I have seen the iron out in the big box stores here along with local hardware store, but remember that we are in different countries and there are some different rules as to what can and can not be sold.

Some like Resup while others like Iron out, I have used both and then there are times that I use Citric acid in place of either Resup or Iron out.

Each well is a bit different and some times one has to use different ways of getting to the same end.

[Bob999]

The drip wick rated is at 12cc. Im sure the manufacturer(ResUP) must have calculated the various doses for the 12cc and 30cc wicks as those are the only 2 sizes I have seen listed. I was supplied a 12cc wick with the 2 cuft resin bed so I hope somebody knew what the hell they were doing when they sent it. I can also add the cleaner directly into the brine tank as per the instructions on the bottle.

The 12cc rating is per day and if you have your softener set up to regenerate approximately every 8 days the dispenser will add approximately 3.2 oz (12cc=0.4 oz). This rate is approximately in the middle of the recommended maintence treatment for a 2 cubic foot softener (2-4 oz).

Alternatively, if you don't want to use the Res Care with every regeneration, you can simply add it manually on the schedule you determine. In my experience Res Care works better than Iron Out. That experience is based on water conditions in my area and perhaps others have different experiences with different water conditions.

Addition: Ak posted as I was typing this note and as I understand his post he has found that the relative effectiveness of different chemicals does vary with water conditions. So use the Res Care and if it works for you (likely will since it is sold in your area) then stick with it.

[Gary Slusser]

The spec sheet for standard high capacity resin shows performance for flows within a range that extends up to approximately 5 gal per minute per cubic foot of resin. The performance at 5 gallon per minute exceeds what is necessary or desired for most residential installations.

Only a few months ago when we got into this subject you said you held to the 5 gpm/cuft, now at least you have raised the 5 to 8 gpm/cuft but, how many softeners have you sized for a constant SFR of 8 gpm/cuft and how long have they been in use and, where is the documentation you used to come up with 8 gpm/'cuft?

The specification sheets also provide data as to the degradation in performance in the form of increased hardness leakage as flows increase above 5 gallon per minute per cubic foot of resin. Using that information I have determined that 8 gallon per minute per cubic foot of performance provides what I consider to be satisfactory performance.

And as you should know that leakage is stated in ppm or mg/l for high commercial and industrial softeners, residential softeners use grains per gallon.

What is important is that it is the VOLUME of resin in relation to the volume of water flowing through the the resin bed that determines performance (hardness leakage) provided that the bed depth is within the specified RANGE. To put it another way bed depth is very much a secondary consideration within a defined range.

Yes and the bed depth is the most critical part unless you want us to believe you could have a wider than deeper bed and still get the same constant SFR gpm out of it.

[farmboy101]

As I posted in the previous thread the difference between the various Clack WS1 heads is in the programming and programming features. If you go to the Clack web site there are manuals for each of the versions and you can see how the programming process and options are different. With the CS version of the electronics the times for the various elements of the regeneration cycle are chosen by entering a P code--P1 or P2 etc. The EE version of the valve provides the greatest programming flexibility because the time for each element of the regeneration is entered directly.



Go here to see the various manuals:

http://www.clackcorp.com/water.htm

Ok bob999, after going there and getting the manual for a CS version I discovered that I HAVE the CS version.

The computer programs exactly like the manual and is set for P7 for regeneration. I unlocked the computer using the sequence of buttons as stated by the manual.

The one I posted came from the Aquatell site as I did not get a manual with the unit and must be out of date and or wrong because I asked Aquatell pre purchase if the valve was the CS and they said yes it was.


So I have entered all of the values except for changing the P #. What should it be??

[Gary Slusser]

The drip wick rated is at 12cc. Im sure the manufacturer(ResUP) must have calculated the various doses for the 12cc and 30cc wicks as those are the only 2 sizes I have seen listed. I was supplied a 12cc wick with the 2 cuft resin bed so I hope somebody knew what the hell they were doing when they sent it. I can also add the cleaner directly into the brine tank as per the instructions on the bottle. I have never seen Iron Out locally. Where do you get it down there, at a grocery or hardware store?? You seem to opposed to an automatic feeder system that uses resup or the like. Are they not as effective as Iron out?

IMO there is nothing better to clean iron off resin than Iron Out, Super Iron Out or Rust Out. Here any hardware or big box or grocery store or plumbing or pump supply house usually has it.

So with your 12 cc wick, how many ounces are going to be used in say 8 days between regenerations?
12 Cubic Centimetre(s) = 0.422340102 Fluid Ounce(s)from
http://convert.french-property.co.uk/index.php

[farmboy101]

M1 means nothing to me. As I think I said, your programming says it is the original version. I can tell by the dn in the programming. The CS version manual on the Clack web site has CS on the front and the programming asks for a P number, yours doesn't.

I have a CS version after all. What P number do you recommend?? It is set to P-7 now.