(206) 949-5683, Top Rated Plumber, Seattle
Results 1 to 15 of 71

Thread: Clack WS1 Programming Recomendations

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    DIY Member farmboy101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Vancouver Island
    Posts
    46

    Default Clack WS1 Programming Recomendations

    I posted here http://www.terrylove.com/forums/show...ridge%21%21%21

    asking about softeners etc and ended up going with a 2 cuft 60K Clack WS1 from Aquatell Canada based on a new ensuite shower and will be installing it this weekend.

    The info from the other thread was I have 8 gpg hardness + the iron and manganese = 18 gpg compensated hardness and 2 people = a need for 18K regenerated capacity, which gives you a metered/demand initiated regeneration on average once every 8 days (1000 gallons). The size of the softener, a 1.5 cuft probably, depends on the peak demand flow rate it has to treat and that is based on the type of fixtures in your two bathrooms; a large tub or multiple shower heads or any body sprays.

    The new shower will have one 8" showerhead and four body sprays each rated at 2.5 gpm for the ones we are thinking of using. I would like someone to look at the settings an see if they are correct and get the best salt use and overall water efficiency .

    These are the instructions that Aquatell say to program the WS1 at. The progrmming does not operate exactly like the instructions say but I am able to get all of the settings to display and change the values.

    Thanks


    1. Press and release “SET CLOCK” and use the UP and DOWN buttons to set the
    hour, then press NEXT. Now use the UP and DOWN buttons to set the minutes
    and then press NEXT. Please note that AM/PM toggles automatically as you
    scroll through the hours of the day.
    2. Once the time has been set correctly, press and hold the NEXT and DOWN button
    for 3 seconds until you see a flashing word in the top left corner of the screen.
    Press the UP button until the word “SOFTENING” is flashing. Then press
    NEXT.
    3. Use the UP and DOWN buttons to set the capacity of your water softener as per
    the chart below:
    i. 20,0000 grain softener = 20.0
    ii. 30,000 grain softener = 30.0
    iii. 45,000 grain softener = 45.0
    iv. 60,000 grain softener = 60.0
    Once the correct value is displayed press NEXT.
    4. For this step, you need to program the pounds of salt that are used per
    regeneration cycle for your softener. The number you program for this step
    depends on the size of softener you purchased:
    i. 20,000 grain softener = 6.0
    ii. 30,000 grain softener = 9.0
    iii. 45,000 grain softener = 12.0
    iv. 60,000 grain softener = 18.0
    Once this value has been entered press the NEXT button.
    5. Use the UP and DOWN buttons to set the flashing value to read “NORMAL” and
    then press NEXT
    6. Use the UP and DOWN buttons to set the flashing value to read “AUTo” and then
    press NEXT
    7. Use the UP and DOWN buttons to set the flashing value to read “PoST” and then
    press NEXT
    8. Use the UP and DOWN buttons to set the flashing value to read “dn” and then
    press NEXT
    9. Set the flashing value to read “NORMAL” and then press NEXT
    10. Press and hold the NEXT and UP buttons until you see “SET HARDNESS” at
    the top of the screen and a number is flashing.
    11. The flashing value is your water hardness. If there is iron in your water add 3
    grains per gallon for every 1 part per million (ppm) of iron present. Use the UP
    and DOWN buttons to set the number and then press NEXT.
    12. For the next value, set this to 14 if you use municipal water. If you use any other
    water source set this value to 7, and then press NEXT
    13. Now set the time of day for regeneration. This is typically set to a low water
    demand time such as 2:00 AM. Then press NEXT.
    Once the valve has been programmed you’ll be back at the home screen and should see the
    time. Pressing the NEXT button will toggle to the gallons of soft water remaining before
    the system needs to regenerate.

    IMPORTANT - you must now run a regeneration cycle to ensure that everything is working
    properly and that nothing is leaking. It is important that you watch the first regeneration
    cycle and inspect the system at each stage for leaks.

    1. From the home screen (shows either time or gallons remaining) press and hold the
    REGEN button. Hold it until you hear the gears of the valve turning. Once the
    gears stop turning you should see the word “BACKWASH” and a timer counting
    down. You should also have water exiting the drain line of the softener. Inspect
    the drain line connector at the valve for leaks and also make sure that the
    receptacle into which the drain is running, is able to handle the flow. You do not
    need to let this cycle run to completion. Once you’ve inspected the components,
    press the REGEN button again to advance to the next stage.
    2. You should now see the word “BRINE” at the bottom of the screen and numbers
    should be counting down. Open the brine tank and listen - you should hear air
    being sucked into the softener through the brine line. Press the “REGEN” button
    again.
    3. You should now see “BACKWASH” and numbers counting down. Once the
    gears have stopped turning, press the REGEN button again.
    4. You should now see “RINSE” and numbers counting down. Once the gears have
    stopped turning, press the REGEN button again.
    5. You should now see “FILL” and numbers counting down. Allow this stage to run
    for it’s full duration. While this stage is running check the brine line adapter on
    the softener valve for any leaks. You’ll also want to have a look inside the brine
    tank to make sure it’s filling with water. Also watch to make sure that the safety
    float in the brine tank does not stop the flow of water before the time has run
    down for this stage.
    6. You can now add a few bags of salt to your brine tank. Your water softener
    installation is now complete.

  2. #2
    DIY Senior Member Bob999's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    448

    Default

    Based on the instructions you have posted it appears that this is the link to the Clack literature for the version of the valve you have:

    http://www.clackcorp.com/valve/Manua...5_WS1_1.25.pdf

    You should do oem settings to program capacity to 18,000, salt to 5 lbs (2.5 lb/cubic foot of resin), I recommend "longer" because of the iron, Auto, Post, dn, normal + on 0.

    Do installer settings to set hardness to 18, day override to 8, regeneration time 2 AM (typical).

  3. #3
    DIY Member farmboy101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Vancouver Island
    Posts
    46

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob999 View Post
    Based on the instructions you have posted it appears that this is the link to the Clack literature for the version of the valve you have:

    http://www.clackcorp.com/valve/Manua...5_WS1_1.25.pdf

    You should do oem settings to program capacity to 18,000, salt to 5 lbs (2.5 lb/cubic foot of resin), I recommend "longer" because of the iron, Auto, Post, dn, normal + on 0.

    Do installer settings to set hardness to 18, day override to 8, regeneration time 2 AM (typical).
    Thanks Bob999, it took a little reading to see what you recommended and all looks straight forward as far as programming goes. I am not sure if the 18k capacity will be enough for the new shower and since i have the extra capacity should I set the value higher until I can log some usage to see what I am using on average??
    Also I have seen the value of 6 pounds of salt per cuft of resin as optimum. Does that value apply always?

  4. #4
    DIY Senior Member Bob999's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    448

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by farmboy101 View Post
    Thanks Bob999, it took a little reading to see what you recommended and all looks straight forward as far as programming goes. I am not sure if the 18k capacity will be enough for the new shower and since i have the extra capacity should I set the value higher until I can log some usage to see what I am using on average??
    Also I have seen the value of 6 pounds of salt per cuft of resin as optimum. Does that value apply always?
    My suggestion is to go with the settings as recommended and check your usage over the first couple of weeks. If your usage is higher than 120 gallons per day then both the capacity and salt dose need to be changed.

    If you want to increase the settings now I recommend either 6 lbs salt and 21,000 or 7 lbs and 24,000.

    The relationship between salt dose and capacity is not linear (not withstanding the apparent linearity in the numbers I have given you) and is usually discussed in terms of lbs of salt per cubic foot of resin. Because you have iron it would generally be recommended that you use a salt dose of 6 lbs per cubic foot or more. However, because you have a 2 cubic foot softener and relatively low estimated usage using 6 lbs per cubic foot (12 lbs for your system) is not recommended because it would result in a much larger capacity than you will likely use within the 8 day period.

    There is a risk that the relatively low salt dose will not work well with your iron level. If problems should arise the proceedure to resolve it would be to do two back to back regenerations at max salt dose (30 lbs in your case) and then to reset the unit to a higher salt dose.

  5. #5
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Wherever I park the motorhome.
    Posts
    6,790

    Default

    Farmboy... you didn't get a CS version. You have the original version and the salt dose efficiency setting is used to set the length of time of the various cycle positions of the regeneration with the exception of the refill cycle.

    You bought a 2.0 cuft and it has a constant SFR gpm of 13 gpm. Your new shower with 4 2.5 gpm body sprays and the 8" shower head is very likely going to use more than 13 gpm. I would have refused to sell you a smaller softener than a 2.5 cuft due to its 18 gpm SFR.

    You bought a Res Up resin cleaner, the most expensive type of resin cleaner and I wouldn't have sold you one. I would have told you how to use Iron Out once every so often instead.

    As the only guy here that has sold a Clack control valve (1411 over 6.5 yrs and 7 since Tue), I don't agree with how you are being told to program the softener.

    You don't use 8 gpm per foot of resin (the depth of the resin bed is what controls the constant SFR, not the width of the column). Nor do you use X lb per cuft for the salt dose unless you are talking the max lbs/cuft.

    You can see in the manual that Bob999 posted that the computer establishes the length of time for each cycle position of a regeneration based on the salt dose efficiency for the K of capacity you program. It isn't based on lbs/cuft. it's the actual efficiency grains/K of capacity.

    Program for 18K and because of the iron and manganese, 6 lbs of salt but, remember that as soon as you go over 13 gpm through the softener, it (2.0 cuft of resin) won't get all the hardness iron and manganese out of your water.

    The Res UP is very expensive and IMO not as good as Iron Out so I wouldn't use it, sell it on E-Bay or locally. On your way to bed once a month mix 1/3 cup of IO in 2 gals of warmish water and pour that into the water in the salt tank and push the Regen button in and let go and Regen Today will flash on the display. The regen will start at 2:00 AM.

    You should add 2-3 gallons of water now before the first regeneration because the instructions you have forget that your refill water volume will not be above the Air Check line on the brine pick up. Most of it will be below the line and unable to be used. That's because they didn't tell you to add water up to the height of the Air Check line on the brine pick up. So most of the Refill water will be below the Air Check line and not be able to be used. That means the first regen won't get the lbs of salt you want and all the 18K or what capacity you have used by the next regeneration won't be regenerated and you'll be running at a deficit from then on. Which can lead to hardness leakage.

    The instructions they sent you and the salt dose and capacity information parts are laughable but at least they told you how to do the dealer programming (it's not the OEM programming as Bob says), most internet dealers haven't been doing that.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  6. #6
    DIY Senior Member Bob999's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    448

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Slusser View Post

    The instructions they sent you and the salt dose and capacity information parts are laughable but at least they told you how to do the dealer programming (it's not the OEM programming as Bob says), most internet dealers haven't been doing that.
    Gary,

    I correctly referred to what the Clack Manual calls OEM Programming.

    Perhaps it has been a long time since you actually read a Clack Manual. I suggest you do so before posting that what I say is wrong.

  7. #7
    DIY Senior Member Bob999's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    448

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Slusser View Post
    You bought a Res Up resin cleaner, the most expensive type of resin cleaner and I wouldn't have sold you one. I would have told you how to use Iron Out once every so often instead.
    Well lets run the numbers to see if that statement holds up.

    Res Care (same as Res Up) is available delivered to the door for $16 per gallon. The recommended maintenance use of Res Care is 1-2 oz per cubic foot so for a 2 cubic foot softener the cost per treatment is 25 - 50 cents.

    Iron Out purchased in a 5 lb container cost $12-13 at my local home store--assume $12--for 64 oz. Gary Slusser says use 1/3 cup (2 and 2/3 oz) per treatment plus 2 gallons of water which will disolve 6 lbs of salt. So the cost of the the Iron out treatment is 50 cents for the iron out and approximately 80 cents for the extra salt or a total cost of approximately $1.30.

    So once again the data shows Gary Slusser has posted incorrect information.

    Clarification: Iron Out is sold by weight with the most economical consumer package being the 5 lb container. The volume of 5 lbs of Iron Out is approximately 64 liquid oz.
    Last edited by Bob999; 06-05-2010 at 05:24 PM. Reason: Add clarification

  8. #8
    DIY Member farmboy101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Vancouver Island
    Posts
    46

    Default

    You should add 2-3 gallons of water now before the first regeneration because the instructions you have forget that your refill water volume will not be above the Air Check line on the brine pick up. Most of it will be below the line and unable to be used. That's because they didn't tell you to add water up to the height of the Air Check line on the brine pick up. So most of the Refill water will be below the Air Check line and not be able to be used. That means the first regen won't get the lbs of salt you want and all the 18K or what capacity you have used by the next regeneration won't be regenerated and you'll be running at a deficit from then on. Which can lead to hardness leakage.
    Thanks Gary for the information on prefilling the brine tank.

  9. #9
    DIY Senior Member Bob999's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    448

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by farmboy101 View Post

    The new shower will have one 8" showerhead and four body sprays each rated at 2.5 gpm for the ones we are thinking of using. I would like someone to look at the settings an see if they are correct and get the best salt use and overall water efficiency .
    Farmboy, in your first post in the previous thread you said: "Well Pump is a 5 GPM 1\2 hp, pressure set at 30-50, 3\4" copper to softener and from pump to tank. I think its a 15 or 20 gallon pressure tank."

    I don't see how that water supply is adequate for 4 body sprays (10 gpm) plus the 8" shower head. The pressure tank--assuming a bladder tank--has a draw down of approximately 7 gallons and once drawn down the water supply will be limited to the output of the pump.

    The good news is that the 2 cubic foot softener should have no problems handling the flow.

  10. #10
    DIY Member farmboy101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Vancouver Island
    Posts
    46

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob999 View Post
    Farmboy, in your first post in the previous thread you said: "Well Pump is a 5 GPM 1\2 hp, pressure set at 30-50, 3\4" copper to softener and from pump to tank. I think its a 15 or 20 gallon pressure tank."

    I don't see how that water supply is adequate for 4 body sprays (10 gpm) plus the 8" shower head. The pressure tank--assuming a bladder tank--has a draw down of approximately 7 gallons and once drawn down the water supply will be limited to the output of the pump.

    The good news is that the 2 cubic foot softener should have no problems handling the flow.
    Yes that is a very good point.

    Maybe the plumber will have some ideas as to what will work given the amount of water supply.

    Can you get lower flow higher pressure body sprays?

    I was going to install a 10 gpm pump in the well to replace the aging 12 year old 5 gpm. It would keep up better with the flow but make it run out of water faster.

    Maybe the body sprays and rain head could be seprated so they could not be used together. Like just the rain head by itself or 2 body sprays at a time, still have them but limit thier use??

    The shower is still at the design stage as I have just finished the demo of the former setup.

  11. #11
    DIY Senior Member Bob999's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    448

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by farmboy101 View Post
    Yes that is a very good point.

    Maybe the plumber will have some ideas as to what will work given the amount of water supply.

    Can you get lower flow higher pressure body sprays?

    I was going to install a 10 gpm pump in the well to replace the aging 12 year old 5 gpm. It would keep up better with the flow but make it run out of water faster.

    Maybe the body sprays and rain head could be seprated so they could not be used together. Like just the rain head by itself or 2 body sprays at a time, still have them but limit thier use??

    The shower is still at the design stage as I have just finished the demo of the former setup.
    I know that Kohler makes 1.5 gpm body sprays. I suspect there are others.

Similar Threads

  1. Clack WS 1 programming PLEASE HELP
    By ryanc in forum Water Softener Forum, problems, installation and reviews
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 02-11-2010, 12:32 PM
  2. Clack WS1 EE Programming
    By SmokedMeat in forum Water Softener Forum, problems, installation and reviews
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 10-13-2009, 08:25 AM
  3. Help programming my Clack WS-1 (salt dose?)
    By Dorrough in forum Water Softener Forum, problems, installation and reviews
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 07-15-2009, 06:46 PM
  4. can I please get some shower faucet recomendations?
    By tjbaudio in forum Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice, Tips & Tricks
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 09-18-2007, 04:07 PM
  5. Recomendations for a shower valve?
    By northman in forum Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice, Tips & Tricks
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 07-17-2007, 08:09 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •