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Thread: Water Softener with RO and Ph (acid) Neutralizer Install Help

  1. #121

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    Yes, the only place I cut into the PVC was where you can see all the purple. I'm going to look into that now and the other stuff as well. I live in a little village and I'm sure things have been here for years that are not up to code. Don't get me started on how every electrical connection in the house was made with tape only with not a single wire nut to be found!!

    So that leaves me with .... what do I need to do now to get this system I have now up and running to it's best possible ability?

  2. #122
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob999 View Post
    Perhaps you can explain why Fleck sells the low flow piston and lists it on Page 8 of the manual that is describing the use of the valve in a filter application. I very much doubt that Fleck would offer the piston if someone is not buying it. Now I can't prove that statement any more than you can prove your statements about any dealers.

    Lets just agree that we disagree and move on.


    STOP THE BASHING!!!
    I'm glad to explain it to you. Various piston choices are used for various filter applications. Example, a low water use piston could be used for a carbon filter on city water used to remove chlorine but not on a heavy mineral like this AN filter or a mixed bed turbidity, or regenerated greensand, Pyrolox etc. filter.

    No I'm not going to agree to disagree when you are wrong because you have no experience in selling or servicing water treatment equipment of any kind; except possibly your own equipment while you pretend you know this stuff because you've read spec sheets or a manual.

    And especially when you continue to deny any errors and you have corrected the original post containing the error and then in the next 50 some posts over a couple days you don't post anything about correcting the error... while you get into playing word games and then get into personal attacks and whine that I'm bashing you.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
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    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  3. #123
    In the Trades Wally Hays's Avatar
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    As a general rule, all traps need vents. In other words, every time you go down with waste, you need to go up with a vent. It could be a mechanical vent, or it could be a pipe tied into the house vents. As for the connecting Sanitary Tee. You can not install them horizontally (flat) for drainage purposes. They should have been wye. You should always check with your building inspector when cutting into the DWV or water supply piping.

    Furthermore I do not believe that the 1 to 2lb difference in incoming pressure will have any effect at all on the equipment that Thinkup has selected and I believe that though perhaps not optimal, his equipment will perform to his satisfaction for many years.
    Last edited by Wally Hays; 04-02-2010 at 11:00 AM. Reason: Added
    Perception is 3/4 of reality

  4. #124
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob999 View Post
    There was nothing sneaky about what I did. The post was labeled as being edited with the date and time the change was made as well as notation that the reason for the change was a correction.

    STOP THE BASHING!!!
    "Correction" can mean anything. You specifically deleted the error and added text making it look as if the error never happened and the added text makes it look like you know what you're talking about and... all the following posts mentioning your error look baseless.

    Had you left the error there and/or corrected it there and then mentioned in a followup post that you corrected it there, I'd be applauding your honesty.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  5. #125
    DIY Senior Member Bob999's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Slusser View Post
    I'm glad to explain it to you. Various piston choices are used for various filter applications. Example, a low water use piston could be used for a carbon filter on city water used to remove chlorine but not on a heavy mineral like this AN filter or a mixed bed turbidity, or regenerated greensand, Pyrolox etc. filter.
    So now you have changed your story--are you going to post a correction? Specifically, you posted:

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Slusser View Post
    This changing the time in backwash by changing the piston stuff Bob.... what are you talking about?
    The piston has absolutely nothing to do with how long a backwash or settle rinse runs for. So please explain what you are talking about and correct you error.

    Previously you inferred that I didn't know what I was talking about when I noted that the backwash time could be changed by changing the piston. Now you acknowledge that I was correct.

    As to the matter of using a low flow piston on an AN filter--I never said that it should be used on an AN filter. This is just another case of your making up what another poster said and then acting like you have corrected an error.

    What I posted was:

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob999 View Post
    Electronic valves allow varying the cycle times--something not available on the 5600 (except by changing the piston) but if the standard cycle times work in your situation then things should be fine.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wally Hays View Post
    As a general rule, all traps need vents. In other words, every time you go down with waste, you need to go up with a vent. It could be a mechanical vent, or it could be a pipe tied into the house vents. As for the connecting Sanitary Tee. You can not install them horizontally (flat) for drainage purposes. They should have been wye. You should always check with your building inspector when cutting into the DWV or water supply piping.
    Wally, are you saying or meaning to implying that Thinkup's 1/2" flow of discharge water from his filter and softener going into 3/4" PVC and then through an air gap into that 1.5" or 2" stand pipe every few days during the middle of the night won't drain OK?
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  7. #127
    In the Trades Wally Hays's Avatar
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    No, I am saying that the drain and trap do not meet code. We have those pesky things for a reason if nothing more than to confuse people. It would seem specious to ignore such things on a forum that primarily gives plumbing advice don't you think?
    Last edited by Wally Hays; 04-02-2010 at 11:37 AM.
    Perception is 3/4 of reality

  8. #128
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wally Hays View Post
    No, I am saying that the drain and trap do not meet code. We have those pesky things for a reason if nothing more than to confuse people. It would seem specious to ignore such things on a forum that primarily gives plumbing advice don't you think?
    No common sense and this confusion you mention is why many DIYer type people don't follow codes but what is the reasons for this type Tee not being allowed, or installed correctly and a vent being required?

    I see you added to the post I just replied to, here's a copy of what you added and my reply;

    ****************
    Furthermore I do not believe that the 1 to 2lb difference in incoming pressure will have any effect at all on the equipment that Thinkup has selected and I believe that though perhaps not optimal, his equipment will perform to his satisfaction for many years.
    ***************
    You had previously said in your first post in this thread that you have installed some water treatment equipment but you were no expert, or something very close to that.

    Yet here you are disagreeing with me that to obtain full DLFC gpm flow in heavy filter mineral takes time and needs all the pressure it can get to successfully backwash it to total bed expansion and doing that ASAP is critical. So what do you base your opinion that 1-2 psi more will not make a difference on? Are you aware that full DLFC gpm and total bed expansion may not happen until the last couple minutes of the backwash cycle position run time?
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob999 View Post
    As to the matter of using a low flow piston on an AN filter--I never said that it should be used on an AN filter. This is just another case of your making up what another poster said and then acting like you have corrected an error.

    What I posted was:
    You implied that Thinkup could change his piston to get more time ion backwash. Here in red is what you originally said in post #65 and in black is my reply to that statement;
    *****************
    This one is wrong; The Fleck head has settings to determine how many days between backwashing and how long the backwash and settling rinse are.

    The 5600 he has is a 12 day time clock and he can select the number of days between backwashes but he CAN NOT change how long the backwash and settling rinse are.
    *************

    Something else you told Thinkup although you've said you didn't suggest/imply he do it;

    ****************
    Originally Posted by Bob999
    Electronic valves allow varying the cycle times--something not available on the 5600 (except by changing the piston) but if the standard cycle times work in your situation then things should be fine.
    ***************

    p.s. those 30 minutes in backwash you mentioned in your correction, there is a number of minutes long pause between them and the flow to drain stops during that pause allowing the bed to settle from whatever amount of expansion it had attained. And 15 minutes may not be sufficient for total bed expansion. The second 15 minutes may not be sufficient either.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  10. #130
    In the Trades Wally Hays's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Slusser View Post
    No common sense and this confusion you mention is why many DIYer type people don't follow codes but what is the reasons for this type Tee not being allowed, or installed correctly and a vent being required?

    The reason we vent traps is to keep them from siphoning and to maintain a trap seal. Traps can siphon for a number of reasons, positive and negative pressure being the underlying cause. Sanitary Tee's can not be used for drainage in the horizontal position because the flow is not directional in that position. No knowledgeable plumber would install a san tee horizontally for waste.

    I see you added to the post I just replied to, here's a copy of what you added and my reply;

    ****************
    Furthermore I do not believe that the 1 to 2lb difference in incoming pressure will have any effect at all on the equipment that Thinkup has selected and I believe that though perhaps not optimal, his equipment will perform to his satisfaction for many years.
    ***************
    You had previously said in your first post in this thread that you have installed some water treatment equipment but you were no expert, or something very close to that.

    Yet here you are disagreeing with me that to obtain full DLFC gpm flow in heavy filter mineral takes time and needs all the pressure it can get to successfully backwash it to total bed expansion and doing that ASAP is critical. So what do you base your opinion that 1-2 psi more will not make a difference on? Are you aware that full DLFC gpm and total bed expansion may not happen until the last couple minutes of the backwash cycle position run time?
    Try to think of it as a difference of opinion. I do not believe that a 1 to 2 lb difference from incoming pressure is going to be a problem, do you? and if so do you have evidence or proof to back it up?
    Perception is 3/4 of reality

  11. #131
    DIY Senior Member Bob999's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Slusser View Post
    You implied that Thinkup could change his piston to get more time ion backwash. Here in red is what you originally said in post #65 and in black is my reply to that statement;
    That is your opinion. I think you are wrong. It is not what I said. You are again making things up and then bashing an the basis of your incorrect interpretation of the post.

  12. #132
    DIY Senior Member Bob999's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Slusser View Post
    This one is wrong; [B][COLOR=red]The Fleck head has settings to determine how many days between backwashing and how long the backwash and settling rinse are.
    I corrected that 2 days ago. So why do you keep reposting it? Do you think you are somehow making a point by continually going over the same thing?

    I have acknowledged that my original post was incorrect and posted correct information.

    If you raise this again you are simply attacking me in violation of the rules of this board.

  13. #133
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wally Hays View Post
    Try to think of it as a difference of opinion. I do not believe that a 1 to 2 lb difference from incoming pressure is going to be a problem, do you? and if so do you have evidence or proof to back it up?
    Please learn how to quote and reply to a quote correctly.

    Here is what I asked you about the specific Tee in Thinkup's drain line and your reply;
    **************
    what is the reasons for this type Tee not being allowed, or installed correctly and a vent being required?

    The reason we vent traps is to keep them from siphoning and to maintain a trap seal. Traps can siphon for a number of reasons, positive and negative pressure being the underlying cause. Sanitary Tee's can not be used for drainage in the horizontal position because the flow is not directional in that position. No knowledgeable plumber would install a san tee horizontally for waste.
    **************
    You generalize but don't get specific to this Tee etc.as to whether it will drain the water flow or not. I suspect that's because you don't want to admit that it will drain that flow rate and volume just fine. If I'm wrong please correct me.

    Yes I have seen AN and other heavy mineral beds clump and otherwise fail because of improper backwashing and the cure is a few minutes more time in backwash OR checking and adjusting the air precharge up in a well pump pressure tank by a few lbs of air pressure or by adjusting the pump switch cutin and cutout up a few lbs higher or adjusting the air precharge and switch both up higher.

    It sounds as if you have no experience in that type troubleshooting or service on heavy mineral filters.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  14. #134
    In the Trades Wally Hays's Avatar
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    Did I generalize? I think what I said was that the tee and trap arrangement did not meet code. Whole bunches of things work that are not done right. I am sure you have seen many AN filters clump up but do you really think a 1 or 2lb difference in pressure will cause it too? As for my level of experience let's just say that we are all continually learning new things.
    Perception is 3/4 of reality

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob999 View Post
    I corrected that 2 days ago.

    I have acknowledged that my original post was incorrect and posted correct information.

    If you raise this again you are simply attacking me in violation of the rules of this board.
    Thank you. I'm glad I could help you do the right thing.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

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