(206) 949-5683, Top Rated Plumber, Seattle
Page 7 of 12 FirstFirst 123456789101112 LastLast
Results 91 to 105 of 173

Thread: Water Softener with RO and Ph (acid) Neutralizer Install Help

  1. #91

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thinkup View Post
    Well I won't say that I don't know anything about this stuff .... I've gotten this far haven't I? lol
    Seriously, it goes without saying that I have nowhere near the ability or expertise that the people do here. I'm just trying to weigh who has the most expertise and all the pros v. cons at this point. I'm also stuck with the equipment that I have. Though, I can take out that pre-filter with ease. Let me play devils advocare for a moment though ...If I don't have a sand problem and decide to leave the filter in place it won't fill up correct? Won't that empty filter give me about the same pressure as having it off anyway? It's just a thought. I'm about 70% decided on taking it off at this point.

    O man, and that drain line I bought .. it is already kinked! And I have almost no idea what you are suggesting for the drain line so I'll have to do a little research after I get out of work. LOL now I know what people feel like when I toss computer terms at them. Thanks for all the help and I'll post again later.
    The purpose of a sand seperator is to remove sand or sediment. If you do not have a lot or either, nothing to worry about but make sure you keep the filter clean . Removing the sand or sediment prior to your equipment is to protect the valve from the piston or brine valve being scared. From what I see, there is nothing wrong with the installation. If you start to get flow rate problem because of the pre-filter, it may cause the AN media to cement up.

  2. #92

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Slusser View Post
    This one is wrong; The Fleck head has settings to determine how many days between backwashing and how long the backwash and settling rinse are.

    The 5600 he has is a 12 day time clock and he can select the number of days between backwashes but he CAN NOT change how long the backwash and settling rinse are.That is one of the biggest reasons why the non electronic version 5600 is a bad choice for heavy mineral filters.Another reason is it is a 3/4" valve and he will not backwash his AN mineral as well as a 1" valve would.
    Gary, this is where I believe you don't understand. In this case, the 5600 has a 5 gpm drain flow control and you say it will not backwash the AN "as well" as the 1" valve. Wouldn't the 1" valve have the same drain flow control, 5 gpm? If you are not flowing anymore water, how could you get a better backwash? You can not! It will be the same flow of water whether you use a 3/4" valve or a 2' valve. It's like telling me I can fill a pool up faster using a firehose vs a garden hose both of which have a flow controller in it.

  3. #93

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Slusser View Post
    No one is saying or has said that the 5600 won't do the job. The question is IF the mineral will be sufficiently backwashed (cleaned) by the control valve being used; a 5600 here that has no means of lengthening the time the backwash cycle position runs for in minutes.


    You are saying tank, it is the mineral in the tank Bob. AN mineral is very heavy (it is crushed LIMESTONE) and hard to lift regardless the size of the tank. And if the backwash cycle position doesn't run long enough, there will be inadequate "lift" during backwash to clean the mineral. And the length of time in backwash is critical. Not lifting the mineral for a long enough period of time will cause the mineral to inadequately do its job but more importantly, the pressure loss across the filter will increase. By the time Thinkup realizes the problem exists, the mineral will have to be replaced because it is too 'dirty' to be able to backwashed clean.


    This changing the time in backwash by changing the piston stuff Bob.... what are you talking about?

    The piston has absolutely nothing to do with how long a backwash or settle rinse runs for. So please explain what you are talking about and correct you error.
    Changing the piston does change the time the "backwash port" is open.

  4. #94

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Slusser View Post
    Skip, is Bob999 right about the minutes a 5600 filter version without a SE or SXT timer runs for being controlled by the type of piston in the control valve or is he wrong?

    I ask because you sell them and I haven't sold any 5600 in any version in like a year, plus that last one was on a softener and it was the first in a number of years after never selling one on a heavy mineral filter in all my 23 years but... I have serviced a large number of heavy mineral filters using the 5600 mechanical filter version 5600. Plus I think I'm older than you and, I may have more hair.

    p.s. someday we might get around to comparing sales records and walnut plaques.
    In my opinion you are both right. By changing the piston, you are changing the time the "port is open". You can not change the amount of time the "valve" has the port open. Also Gary, the motor runs 24/7. Nothing on the 5600 turns on and off the motor.

  5. #95
    In the Trades Akpsdvan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    1,464

    Default

    As Bugs said...

    "I know that I should have taken that left turn at Albuquerque"

    So has this thread.

    The first question was simple by a home owner as to how to put things in , NOT the pros and cons of what he bought, but how to install and use.!

  6. #96
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Wherever I park the motorhome.
    Posts
    6,790

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob999 View Post
    I don't believe I ever posted that "the piston controls the length of time in minutes it allows water to run to drain"

    What I actually posted was "Electronic valves allow varying the cycle times--something not available on the 5600 (EXCEPT BY CHANGING THE PISTON) "
    Bob, what does "except by changing the piston" mean if not changing the length of the minutes the cycles run for? Were you suggesting using a different piston than the filter piston?

    BTW, I didn't mention your other error, not only electronic valves allow varying the cycle times, Fleck makes mechanical control valve timers, like the 2510, that allow for changing the minutes the cycle positions run for.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob999 View Post
    Enough of dealing with mud slinging and crap from a salesman who sells from a no fixed address mobile home and does not even know the important details of the merchandise he sells.
    This is a perfect example of you misrepresenting information Bob. You know I have a permanent address and that I live in our motor home, plus, you KNOW I would not sell the filter version of the mechanical 5600!

    Would you want to tell me again that the Clack WS-1 CS doesn't allow changing the minutes of run time for various cycle positions as you did a week or two ago but now say "Electronic valves allow varying the cycle times
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  7. #97
    DIY Senior Member Bob999's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    448

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Slusser View Post
    This is a perfect example of you misrepresenting information Bob. You know I have a permanent address and that I live in our motor home,
    There you go again misrepresenting what I posted.

    I said nothing about your permanent address or where you live.

    What I posted was that YOU ARE A SALESMAN AND THAT YOU SELL FROM A NO FIXED ADDRESS MOBIL HOME.

    I note that you don't deny that my statement is true.

    Rather you appear to try to fuzz up the issue with misdirection and irrelevancies.
    Last edited by Bob999; 03-31-2010 at 07:17 PM. Reason: accuracy

  8. #98
    DIY Senior Member Bob999's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    448

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Slusser View Post
    Would you want to tell me again that the Clack WS-1 CS doesn't allow changing the minutes of run time for various cycle positions as you did a week or two ago but now say "Electronic valves allow varying the cycle times
    Good luck in supporting that wild allegation. It didn't happen. You are imagining it.

  9. #99
    DIY Senior Member Bob999's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    448

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Slusser View Post
    BTW, I didn't mention your other error, not only electronic valves allow varying the cycle times, Fleck makes mechanical control valve timers, like the 2510, that allow for changing the minutes the cycle positions run for.
    This is another example of misrepresentation or ignorance/inability to read.

    In commenting on non-electonic valves in this thread I posted only about the Fleck 5600.

    I did not mention or allude to other electromechanically controlled valves.

  10. #100

    Default

    HOLY COW ...LOL I just got home and quickly read all that I missed out on today. To be honest I'll have to re-read it all a few times to wrap my head around it all.

    Ok, back to work ...well not tonight but in my head anyway .... My thought process right about now is to leave everything as I have it setup now while adding some sort of funnel at the air gap to prevent possible spillage and do as Gary suggested and take back the 1/2 tubing I have and get something more rugged. I can't remember who made the other suggestion, but I like the idea of using the more rugged clear tubing and then going into the PVC on the wall. I'm going to have to read all the suggestions one more time on that one too. Then up the wall with 3/4 PVC and then down the basement in 3/4 PVC to the drain line for the septic. Should be a blast. O man and does that purple PVC glue stuff STINK!

    Then once I have it all setup like this .... we can tackle these pistons and backwash settings and the softener. Don't forget I have an RO system lying around freaking me out too ROFL!

    This is my first home water filter setup and I'm ok with getting it all going and then having to make changes later. I just don't want to eff up my plumbing, get mineral or resin or crap in the lines, screw up the drain, set the house on fire, poison myself, or have no water pressure left to shower. OOOoooo, I do have a tankless hot water heater as well. If this pre-filter doesn't end up having a good home in the front of everything ...might it make sense to put it in front of the tankless hot water heater? I don't have any filter in front of that now.

    With any luck, my goal is to crank this system up this weekend!! Even though there is some craziness going on in here, I still want to thank everyone for making this forum a lively one! We'll get this all going one way or another and then we can all debate on the best settings I can get out of my equipment. Thanks guys!

  11. #101
    In the Trades Akpsdvan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    1,464

    Default

    PVC glue and cleaner... AIR FLOW.... AIR FLOW..... or you will get Higher than a kite in high winds.....
    The neutralizer should have came with a back wash flow control... say 5 gpm, if that is the case then there should be no problem about the media going out the back wash line as long as there is 17" of space between the media and the bottom of the threads at the top of the tank.

    Softener unit is much like the AN or neutralizer... head space or clear room between media and bottom of threads at the top of the tank and a flow control of say 3 gpm... and all should be good.

    No need to change the piston on the 5600, just have it clean or cycle every 2 or 3 days and that should be great... you have little to no iron that is going to challenge the media .... just low ph and Hardness...

    If you no longer need the Rusco spin down,, Sell it to some one that does...

  12. #102
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Wherever I park the motorhome.
    Posts
    6,790

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Skip Wolverton View Post
    Gary, this is where I believe you don't understand. In this case, the 5600 has a 5 gpm drain flow control and you say it will not backwash the AN "as well" as the 1" valve. Wouldn't the 1" valve have the same drain flow control, 5 gpm? If you are not flowing anymore water, how could you get a better backwash? You can not! It will be the same flow of water whether you use a 3/4" valve or a 2' valve. It's like telling me I can fill a pool up faster using a firehose vs a garden hose both of which have a flow controller in it.
    I think Thinkup has a 1 cuft AN filter and a 1.5 cuft softener. I suggest the filter has a larger than a 5 gpm DLFC but, less pressure will take longer to raise the bed to get to 5 gpm than higher pressure would and until the bed is lifted sufficiently you may not be getting to full flow because of the pressure loss in the compacted bed. And then you can't increase the length of time the backwash runs for so the backwash won't be at full bed expansion for very long before the valve stops the backwash cycle. When I said 1" valve I was referring to the Clack WS-1 I suggested would have been a better choice than the 5600.

    Also, I do not believe any dealer would use any piston other than the standard backwash only filter piston for the 5600 on an AN filter.

    Bob999, I have not called you any names or commented about where you live or what you do for a living or how you say whatever. I commented on what you said in the context that you said it and with only one exception, I quoted your statement that I commented on. If that upsets you that's on you.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  13. #103
    DIY Senior Member Bob999's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    448

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Slusser View Post
    Also, I do not believe any dealer would use any piston other than the standard backwash only filter piston for the 5600 on an AN filter.
    I can't speak for what "any dealer" would or may do. It is pure speculation.

    What I can speak to is the capabilities of the Fleck 5600 when used in a filter application. If the "filter piston" is used then there is a total of 30 minutes of backwash. If the "low water piston" is installed then there is a total of 15 minutes backwash. I think the name "low water piston" is used because it reduces the water used for backwash by half. If the DLFC button is 5 gpm then 75 gallons of water is used for backwash with the low water piston and 150 gallons of water is used for backwash with the filter piston. There is further water use reduction with the low water piston because the preliminary and settling rinse are eliminated.

    Now just because I am pointing out the capabilities/options available for the valve it does not mean I am advocating use of those capabilities/options.

  14. #104

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Slusser View Post
    I think Thinkup has a 1 cuft AN filter and a 1.5 cuft softener. I suggest the filter has a larger than a 5 gpm DLFC but, less pressure will take longer to raise the bed to get to 5 gpm than higher pressure would and until the bed is lifted sufficiently you may not be getting to full flow because of the pressure loss in the compacted bed. And then you can't increase the length of time the backwash runs for so the backwash won't be at full bed expansion for very long before the valve stops the backwash cycle. When I said 1" valve I was referring to the Clack WS-1 I suggested would have been a better choice than the 5600.
    Now please explain to me how you increase the pressure of the water by using a 1" valve.

  15. #105
    In the Trades Wally Hays's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    652

    Default

    I'm not a water filter expert though I do occasionally install them. Anhway, increasing the size of the valve, pipe or whatever does not increase pressure, only flow. After having slogged through this whole mess I am left wondering just how much useful advice has been left for the OP.

    Comments on the installation: Nice job, looks good. The only thing that is really wrong would be the unvented trap your drain is running into. Not only is it unvented, it's also an S trap and the 3 x 1 1/2 san tee should not be installed horizontally. However I note that it is not the only wrong fitting installed there.
    Last edited by Wally Hays; 04-01-2010 at 11:15 AM.

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •