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Thread: Water Softener with RO and Ph (acid) Neutralizer Install Help

  1. #136
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wally Hays View Post
    Did I generalize? I think what I said was that the tee and trap arrangement did not meet code. Whole bunches of things work that are not done right. I am sure you have seen many AN filters clump up but do you really think a 1 or 2lb difference in pressure will cause it too? As for my level of experience let's just say that we are all continually learning new things.
    Yes I think you generalized because you actually said; Originally Posted by Wally Hays As a general rule, all traps need vents....

    And since bunches of things not to code "work" as you say, help Thinkup out here, do you think this Tee etc. will work for him or not?

    Yes over time a couple lbs less water pressure can make a big difference by causing incomplete backwashing, channelization and clumping problems but more important is dirt build up in the bed which prevents the mineral from buffering the acid in the water and premature replacement of the whole bed.

    Do you agree with me that it is easier to listen and learn from others that have experience in doiing 'things' you're attempting to do than it is to go out and spend your time, effort and money to make your own mistakes to learn the same things?
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  2. #137
    DIY Senior Member Bob999's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Slusser View Post
    Thank you. I'm glad I could help you do the right thing.
    So now you are taking credit for other peoples actions. As I said I corrected my post two days ago and you have continued to bash me for two days after I corrected it.
    So now you edit my posts that you are replying to to substantively change what I said.

    You have demonstrated that you are one very unscroupulous individual.

    What I actually posted was:
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob999 View Post
    I corrected that 2 days ago. So why do you keep reposting it? Do you think you are somehow making a point by continually going over the same thing? (emphasis added)

    I have acknowledged that my original post was incorrect and posted correct information.

    If you raise this again you are simply attacking me in violation of the rules of this board.

  3. #138
    In the Trades Wally Hays's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Slusser View Post
    Yes I think you generalized because you actually said; Originally Posted by Wally Hays As a general rule, all traps need vents....

    That's not a generalization it is the code. All traps need vents


    And since bunches of things not to code "work" as you say, help Thinkup out here, do you think this Tee etc. will work for him or not?

    I don't know how to say this with any more clarity. I never said it will not work, I said it does not meet code. Am I missing something or are you?

    Yes over time a couple lbs less water pressure can make a big difference by causing incomplete backwashing, channelization and clumping problems but more important is dirt build up in the bed which prevents the mineral from buffering the acid in the water and premature replacement of the whole bed.

    But all water systems vary in pressure throughout the day and depending on use. Most residential systems don't even have a gauge that is accurate enough to worry about 2lbs.

    Do you agree with me that it is easier to listen and learn from others that have experience in doing 'things' you're attempting to do than it is to go out and spend your time, effort and money to make your own mistakes to learn the same things?
    Yes indeed, and that is why I pointed out the code errors in the drainage piping so that others will hopefully not make the same mistakes.
    Last edited by Wally Hays; 04-02-2010 at 04:57 PM. Reason: fixed a couple spelling errors, yours and mine
    Perception is 3/4 of reality

  4. #139
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob999 View Post
    So now you are taking credit for other peoples actions.
    No, I'm saying that I helped you do the right thing which was to finally mention that you had corrected your error days ago and to finally admit that you had made the error that for days and 3 pages of posts afterward you had been denying making that or any error.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob999 View Post
    As I said I corrected my post two days ago and you have continued to bash me for two days after I corrected it.
    Yes I kept mentioning the error you failed to tell anyone about after you deleted it and replaced the wrong statement with correct info.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob999 View Post
    So now you edit my posts that you are replying to to substantively change what I said.
    Yes you did correct the error as if it never happened and the only way anyone would know you made the error is due to my quoting it when I said you were wrong and identified the error. And unless those of us involved in the thread went back and saw your correction of the error, that delay allowed you to continue to deny you made the error. Shame on you but....

    No, I didn't change anything you said when I edited out of the quote what I wasn't replying to. What I quoted is letter for letter what you said and in the order you said it. Well that's unless you have gone back now and changed/edited the original, as you did with your incorrect info (error) in post #65.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob999 View Post
    You have demonstrated that you are one very unscroupulous individual.
    Since I caught you being "unscroupulous", please show us where you think I have been "unscroupulous", because your saying I am doesn't make it so.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  5. #140
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Sorry, I still say that your As a general rule, all traps need vents.... is a generalization.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wally Hays View Post
    Yes indeed, and that is why I pointed out the code errors in the drainage piping so that others will hopefully not make the same mistakes.
    I think you are mistakenly thinking that a DIYer did that plumbing.

    The home owner and the OP of this thread told you he did not do that work and that all he did was add the trap and stand pipe. He also said he bought the house recently and has no problems with the drain system and he had a home inspector inspect it before buying it and none of this was mentioned as not being to code. I can't see any house inspector making that kind of serious error.

    And now you have told him that he has to redo it all now when he installs his new water filter and softener....
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  6. #141
    In the Trades Wally Hays's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Slusser View Post
    Sorry, I still say that your As a general rule, all traps need vents.... is a generalization.

    No, it's not my rule, every code in this country requires traps to be vented one way or another.


    I think you are mistakenly thinking that a DIYer did that plumbing.

    We had already established that the only thing the OP did was cut in the san tee and the trap. No clue who did the rest, I only pointed out the code errors there and they are code violations no and's if's or but's about it.

    The home owner and the OP of this thread told you he did not do that work and that all he did was add the trap and stand pipe. He also said he bought the house recently and has no problems with the drain system and he had a home inspector inspect it before buying it and none of this was mentioned as not being to code. I can't see any house inspector making that kind of serious error.

    Well, apparently the home inspector is not up to speed when it comes to illegal use of fittings and traps. What more can I say here. I can print the code and commentary if you would like.


    And now you have told him that he has to redo it all now when he installs his new water filter and softener....
    I did not even once tell him that he had to re-do anything. What I said was that had he applied for the proper permit and had he had the installation inspected the code inspector would have made him change those things that do not meet code. What I really don't understand is why you want to make an issue out of what any licensed plumber knows is bad plumbing.
    Perception is 3/4 of reality

  7. #142
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wally Hays View Post
    I did not even once tell him that he had to re-do anything. What I said was that had he applied for the proper permit and had he had the installation inspected the code inspector would have made him change those things that do not meet code. What I really don't understand is why you want to make an issue out of what any licensed plumber knows is bad plumbing.
    I don't recall your mentioning what you say you told him about a permit but I do know what his reply to you was, here is a copy;
    *************
    So now it seems I may have plumbing issues!! Great. Ok, I'm going to fix em. I'm going to just crank it all out while I'm down there working on this stuff. I'm running electric for the gear this weekend and doing the drain line again.
    *************

    IMO you are causing him confusion and additional stress that he doesn't need. For what? That plumbing has been working without problems for probably many years and you say it will work for his water treatment equipment drain.

    And now you're getting into not understanding why I'm making an issue out of what a licensed plumber knows is bad plumbing.... You also say you're getting beat up in this thread in your Help me out here guys thread you started about this plumbing in the plumbing forum.

    This thread is 10 pages and 120 posts long, started 2/27/2010 which is 5 weeks ago, and your first post is #107 on page 8 and mostly all you have done is to be critical and disagreeable with things that I have said; and it started in your first post. And personally I see confrontation and a somewhat anti DIYer attitude in your posts about codes rather than anything helpful for the OP.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  8. #143
    DIY Senior Member Bob999's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Slusser View Post
    No, I'm saying that I helped you do the right thing which was to finally mention that you had corrected your error days ago and to finally admit that you had made the error that for days and 3 pages of posts afterward you had been denying making that or any error.


    Yes I kept mentioning the error you failed to tell anyone about after you deleted it and replaced the wrong statement with correct info.


    Yes you did correct the error as if it never happened and the only way anyone would know you made the error is due to my quoting it when I said you were wrong and identified the error. And unless those of us involved in the thread went back and saw your correction of the error, that delay allowed you to continue to deny you made the error. Shame on you but....

    No, I didn't change anything you said when I edited out of the quote what I wasn't replying to. What I quoted is letter for letter what you said and in the order you said it. Well that's unless you have gone back now and changed/edited the original, as you did with your incorrect info (error) in post #65.


    Since I caught you being "unscroupulous", please show us where you think I have been "unscroupulous", because your saying I am doesn't make it so.
    I listed two examples in the post you just filabustered about. Two more examples:
    Your constant bashing: and,
    you have not yet corrected your errors in this thread and acknowledged that you posted misleading/erroneous information.

    But, I suppose it is what is to be expected from a salesman who sells from a no fixed address mobile home.

  9. #144
    In the Trades Wally Hays's Avatar
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    This is an april fools joke right? You have to be kidding. This is a PLUMBING forum is it not? I did not confuse anyone including the poster. The poster wants to have things done right and he is willing and able to do them that way when given good advice. There is NOTHING anti DIY about pointing out things that are not to code anymore than your posts about the length of his connections. And I have not been critical of anything you said other than I do not believe that 1 or 2 lbs of water pressure will make a difference. That's not criticism, it's my opinion or am I not allowed to have one? Furthermore Terry himself acknowledges that the drainage is a mess. What is so wrong with having things done right? I occasionally get a hole or a tear in the fabric of my Citabria. I carry a roll of duct tape for just those occasions. But you can bet your last dollar than when I get her home the hole gets fixed the right way.

    And you know what? I don't see the word MODERATOR under your name.
    Last edited by Wally Hays; 04-03-2010 at 12:57 PM. Reason: added
    Perception is 3/4 of reality

  10. #145
    DIY Senior Member Bob999's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Slusser View Post
    And personally I see confrontation and a somewhat anti DIYer attitude in your posts about codes rather than anything helpful for the OP.
    So now you are critical of others for what you do every day--confrontation and an anti DIYer attitude rather than anything helpful for the OP--and even when the others have not been confrontational and anti DIYer. I certainly have seen nothing in the posts from Wally Hays that qualifies as confrontational and anti DIYer!

    To specifically support my statement about confrontation--you have repeatedly posted alledged "facts" about me that you have no way of knowing because I have not posted personal information about myself. Yet you continue to post statements about what you think is my background, experience, and expertise. To specifically support my statement about anti-DIYer I need only point to posts you have made--including at least one in this thread where you were critical of a DIYer's decisions AFTER he had made them and posted them on this board. Here is an example:

    "And I see that you bought the EE version of the Clack WS-1 and a 5600 time clock for a heavy mineral pH filter. I would have told you not to do that. The 5600 is not a good choice because it is a 3/4" valve. You should have gone with the Clack WS-1CS for both with the one for the filter being non metered or the time clock version."

  11. #146
    In the Trades Wally Hays's Avatar
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    Thanks Bob. This is possibly the most frustrating thing I have seen in a long time and I still don't know what the whole point is. Even the OP thanked me for pointing out the stuff in his basement. The only one that's got a problem here is Gary who somehow thinks I have dissed him because I have a different opinion.Name:  frustration..jpg
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    Perception is 3/4 of reality

  12. #147
    DIY Senior Member Bob999's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wally Hays View Post
    Thanks Bob. This is possibly the most frustrating thing I have seen in a long time and I still don't know what the whole point is. Even the OP thanked me for pointing out the stuff in his basement. The only one that's got a problem here is Gary who somehow thinks I have dissed him because I have a different opinion.Name:  frustration..jpg
Views: 98
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    I certainly don't understand what the point is either. I have to wonder whether it is Egomania -- is an obsessive preoccupation with one's self[ and applies to someone who follows their own ungoverned impulses and is possessed by delusions of personal greatness and feels a lack of appreciation. Someone suffering from this extreme egocentric focus is an egomaniac. The condition is psychologically abnormal.

  13. #148
    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
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    If Gary's postings convinced you that you had the ability to DIY this, or any other job, I guess it is time to "chuck him along side his head", because we should only be helping people who already know most of the answer to their questions and just need a little nudge, NOT to encourage people that "anyone can do plumbing if they can screw two pipes together". And it looks like you have enough problems in that basement, that you do not need more by an improper softener connection. As a minor point and to answer one of your questions, RO units are USUALLY installed with water softeners to remove the sodium, NOT salt because there is no salt in soft water. There is sodium, and for people on low sodium diets the RO unit makes it safe for them. I also makes soft water more palatable for people, such as myself, who do not like the "flat" taste of soft water.

  14. #149
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hj View Post
    If Gary's postings convinced you that you had the ability to DIY this, or any other job, I guess it is time to "chuck him along side his head", because we should only be helping people who already know most of the answer to their questions and just need a little nudge, NOT to encourage people that "anyone can do plumbing if they can screw two pipes together".

    And it looks like you have enough problems in that basement, that you do not need more by an improper softener connection.
    HJ, this is not one of my 'chuck'im up long side his head' things. Well there is those times in this thread for trying to have a conversation with Wally... or Bob999.

    Actually all I have told the OP about plumbing is the size of the drain line he should run and that I would have shortened the lengths of the PEX between his Sharkbite fittings and the length of the copper tails. That drain line is the 3/4" PVC for his like 70' run to the far end of the basement. I didn't see any sense or need to talk about his not to code upside down or misapplied traps etc., or the very ugly Fernco fitting failing to support his cast iron stack. ummm I may have also mentioned he should have used the Clack SCH 80 PVC elbow plumbing connectors instead of the brass inline fittings too.

    Anyway he did do good plumbing his PVC 3/4" drain line and running the PEX to his filter and softener but I guess we'll see if it holds water later. And he put the stand pipe in too, and he even used purple primer! without having to be told. So maybe with nothing but the desire, and the ability to sniff PVC glue without passing out, he's turned out to be a pretty good DIYer plumber so far, no? I don't know if he can use wrenches yet.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  15. #150
    Plumber jimbo's Avatar
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    How the heck did a little question about a water filter turn in to an 11 page tear jerker??

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