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Thread: new well pump and other stuff

  1. #1
    DIY Junior Member turbotech's Avatar
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    Default new well pump and other stuff...cell phone

    Hi,
    I am new here and came across this site looking for drilled well information. Lots of good information here. I searched for my problem but didn't find anything. So here it goes.

    I recently had my well pump replaced because the original one failed. I tested it and saw it was reading open instead of less than 5 ohms across the 2-wire power leads. If I turned it off and let it cool and then flipped the power switch few times I could get it to work for a while.

    I called a well company and they came out and tested it. Their result was a failed pump. They pulled the pump and replaced it. During this time one of the crew lost their Cell Phone. At the end another guy tried calling it and it went to voicemail. Three of us looked every where and couldn't find it. Now all I can think is that it may be in the well. Toxic Stuff. Does anyone have any recommendations on how to test for it in the well? I am going to spend the weekend looking for it. I spent 3 hours yesterday and couldn't find it.
    Did it go to voicemail because the battery was dead or the water killed it? Makes me wonder. The ringer was on. The pump is set down about 400' feet. I don't know the total depth of the well.

    Thank you
    Last edited by turbotech; 02-12-2010 at 11:46 AM. Reason: title

  2. #2
    Shared Well Services RayMan's Avatar
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    The phone will go to voice mail if the phone battery is dead, turned off, wet or even destroyed. When the service is turned off there would be no more voice mail.

    It might be possible to locate the phone using the GPS locater which is built into the phone it has a battery back up and most people do not turn the GPS off. Check with the cell phone provider or the service the phone was through and see if they can locate it. Good Luck!!

  3. #3
    DIY Junior Member turbotech's Avatar
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    Some good luck happened. I talked to the crew guy that lost his phone. I decided to give it a try calling it again and locate it. To my surprise someone answered. He found it when I was in the house right before they finished. That really made my weekend.

    Something to keep in mind when doing well work. Batteries are really nasty and so isn't the the stuff that electronics are made of. Cell phones fall out easily. It is probably best to keep all electronics far away from the well while working on it.

  4. #4
    DIY Junior Member turbotech's Avatar
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    After the pump was installed I looked up some info on it. I paid $1200 for a Franklin FPS 1/2 HP, 7GPM pump and motor. It seemed like a high price but I can't verify it yet. The new 10-2 w/ ground seemed expensive at $1.81 / ft. I needed 350 feet total. Online it was only around $0.85 / ft.
    Overall, they did a great job and was fast. Normally I am a DIYer but the thought of making a tripod or using the tractor to lift the pump did not seem worth it if I broke the pipe or lost it down the well.

    I question the use of the 1/2HP, 7GPM though. I started looking into how to read pump maps/curves. I am not familiar with the wording, but so far it doesn't seem like a pump that size will do the 350' pump installed height, 100' ft of line to the house, and two story house all at 30/50 PSI.
    From what I read it should have been a 3/4 HP, 7 GPM. I am in the early learning stages though.

  5. #5
    Shared Well Services RayMan's Avatar
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    Its the Pressure Tank that forces the water through out your home. The submersible pump fills the pressure tank when the tanks psi goes down to 30 psi,l when the tank reaches 50 psi the pump turns off. The Control switch is a 30/50 psi. You cannot pressurize water like you can air. Its the bladder, which contains air, inside the pressure tank that pushes the water. Hope this helps a little.

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    Two things, the price is pretty damn good. Copper wire price is nigh right now and two, are you having pressure problems on the second floor?

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    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    The pump only works to move water from the water level in the well, not the depth it is hung at until and if the water level were to fall to that depth.

    The pressure tank only moves water when the pump is off, when the pump is on the pump moves the water and fills the tank with any flow higher than that being used and the pressure increases to the turn the pump off setting on the pressure switch. Then the tank takes over until the pressure falls to the turn the pump on setting.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
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  8. #8
    DIY Junior Member turbotech's Avatar
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    Thank you all for the explanations. By the description it is a system much like my air compressor except for the inlet part being different.
    Gary,
    I understand about the head feet being referenced to the water height below the ground. I looked at the Franklin FPS 7gpm 1/2 HP curve and it looks like ideally for max. efficiency my water should be around 125 to 175' feet below the ground.

    The pressure tank I have is a Amtrol Well-X-trol 32 gallon tank that is twenty years old. How long do these tanks typically last? Should I be considering installing a new tank since the pump just failed? If yes, I am considering putting in a larger tank because they aren't that much more and it would make the cycle time of the pump longer so it would be easier on the pump.

  9. #9
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    The pump failing alone should not be a consideration as to whether or not the tank is ok. That said, you are correct, a large tank will give you longer cycle times, and conswquently longer pump life in theory. A better way to go would be a small tank and a cycle stop valve. (see sticky above)

  10. #10
    DIY Junior Member turbotech's Avatar
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    The tank looks great externally. What is the average tank life? I was thinking of replacing it because I thought 20 years would be about the end of life. There was some dirt in the tank that I flushed out when the pump failed. I may have a little more in it now to flush out.
    I did look into the CSV but it seemed like I need to insert a piece into the well and also a new valve. I do not understand why I would need to insert the well piece. I need to read up on them more.
    Thank you for the CSV info.

    EDIT: When a tank fails is it normally just the diaphragm going and low water pressure or is it something else? I just don't want to end up with a basement full of water. Is there a way to look into the tank to see the condition of the walls and diaphragm?
    Last edited by turbotech; 02-16-2010 at 01:06 PM.

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    When the tank goes it will either leak or the pump will short cycle. You will notice pressure surges at the faucets. How long do tanks last? Your guess is as good as mine. I've seen them die in 5 years, I've seen them 30 years plus.

  12. #12
    DIY Junior Member turbotech's Avatar
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    The tank is 20 years old now so I figure it is worth it to replace now. I looked at the Well X trol and the Flexcon tanks. I think I might go with a Flexcon composite FL28 / H2PF82 and a new Tee package from aquascience.net.

    It looks like the CSV needs to be installed when the well pump is installed so it is too late for that. It wouldn't be worth it to lift the pump back out. I figure that replacing the current 32 gallon tank with a 82 gallon will extend the well pump life. The larger tank is a little over double the price of the small tank.

    I was curious about well pump pullers (upsy daisy or variant) and checked to see if any companies around here rent them. No one rents them. When my well pump went I want to change it myself but the water down time waiting on ordered parts wouldn't have went to good with the others at the house. Normally I am a DIY type so I am picking up some 1" pipe this weekend to make a TEE to connect to the pitless adapter. I am also getting some conduit to make a tripod that I can hang a 12v electric winch off of. I work on cars a lot and do my own repairs on just about everything so I can weld up a ring for the top of the tripod for the well pipe to feed up through. I think some 1" EMT conduit would work for the tripod. I would tie a piece of rope to the end of the winch that had a noose to grab the pipe. Then another piece of rope tied to the tripod to grab the pipe when I reset the winch rope on the pipe.

    I ran the numbers for the weight of the well pump and pipe full of water. With a 1 1/4" poly pipe and pump it comes out to.
    Pipe is 370' : 3.14 * ((1.25/2)^2) * 370 * .1338 = 60 lbs
    pump assembly: 40 lbs
    poly pipe : 50 lbs
    TOTAL : 60+40+50 = 150 lbs

  13. #13
    Moderator valveman's Avatar
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    Only the plastic CSV valves need to be installed in the well. A CSV1W or a CSV1Z can be installed before the pressure tank.

  14. #14
    DIY Junior Member turbotech's Avatar
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    When I used the tool to do the search it came up with using CSV and CSV1Z. I thought they both had to be installed. Are you saying that I could just install the CSV1Z right before the pressure tank? Would it go before the pressure tank check valve or after it?
    The picture at :http://www.cyclestopvalves.com/applications_1.html shows that I would be better off using the CSV1Z. The picture looks like it is installed before the tank check valve. Is that correct?
    From what I read I would rather install the CSV1Z and a new Flexcon composite 32 gallon tank with a new TEE instead of going with the 82 gallon Flexcon tank.

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