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Thread: Boiler and tank on 1/2" copper

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  1. #1
    DIY Senior Member wallygater's Avatar
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    Default Boiler and tank on 1/2" copper

    I would like to re-pipe my current boiler setup from 1/2 to 3/4. The supply from the meter is 3/4 copper pipe. For some reason it was reduced to 1/2 for everything in the house including the feed to the boiler. I would like to re-pipe the system so that the boiler will be fed by 3/4. Attached to my boiler is a hot water holding tank. In between the two is a circulating pump. All of this is currently piped in i/2 copper.

    My goal is to feed the brand new high flow shower with 3/4 copper.
    the cold was easy, all I had to do was tee off the main and run a dedicated line to the shower mixing valve.
    The hot is obviously more difficult
    So far I have been able to run a dedicated 3/4" hot feed from the top of the hot water tank to that shower mixing valve
    My problem is the boiler and hot water tank is all fed by 1/2". This is what I would like to correct
    The pictures show the boiler and circulating pump and tank
    the pump is a little giant model # CMD-1003B
    The hot water tank a Rheem model # 666H-300
    I think I will need a different pump because this one only has 1/2" connections. Or does the pump matter?
    The boiler is no problem, there are 3/4" connections that can be utilized on that
    The hot water tank has 3/4" connections on the top, but the bottom nipple where the pump is connected is 1/2". Does this mater? Will that pump affect the pressure and volume, or does it just circulate when needed.

    Like I said, My goal is to feed that new high flow shower with a dedicated 3/4" hot water line.
    The rest of the house I will be leaving on 1/2"
    Does this sound like it can be done?
    Can you offer me any advise or opinion on this?
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    Last edited by wallygater; 02-13-2010 at 09:54 AM.
    wally

  2. #2
    Plumbing Contractor for 49 years johnjh2o1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallygater View Post
    I would like to re-pipe my current boiler setup from 1/2 to 3/4. The supply from the meter is 3/4 copper pipe. For some reason it was reduced to 1/2 for everything in the house including the feed to the boiler. I would like to re-pipe the system so that the boiler will be fed by 3/4. Attached to my boiler is a hot water holding tank. In between the two is a circulating pump. All of this is currently piped in i/2 copper.

    My goal is to feed the brand new high flow shower with 3/4 copper.
    the cold was easy, all I had to do was tee off the main and run a dedicated line to the shower mixing valve.
    The hot is obviously more difficult
    So far I have been able to run a dedicated 3/4" hot feed from the top of the hot water tank to that shower mixing valve
    My problem is the boiler and hot water tank is all fed by 1/2". This is what I would like to correct
    The pictures show the boiler and circulating pump and tank
    the pump is a little giant model # CMD-1003B
    The hot water tank a Rheem model # 666H-300
    I think I will need a different pump because this one only has 1/2" connections. Or does the pump matter?
    The boiler is no problem, there are 3/4" connections that can be utilized on that
    The hot water tank has 3/4" connections on the top, but the bottom nipple where the pump is connected is 1/2". Does this mater? Will that pump affect the pressure and volume, or does it just circulate when needed.

    Like I said, My goal is to feed that new high flow shower with a dedicated 3/4" hot water line.
    The rest of the house I will be leaving on 1/2"
    Does this sound like it can be done?
    Can you offer me any advise or opinion on this?
    It won't help as you are feeding the hot water supply through the coil first. That's where your getting your flow restriction. You need to re pipe the setup so you are feeding the water tank and using the coil to circulate the water from the tank through the coil.

    John

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    John is correct. there's no point and no advantage to re-piping that. The best thing you could possibly do, would be to tear that old dinosaur out and replace it with something that gets better that 50% efficiency. A new boiler and indirect would pay for itself in about 5 years.

  4. #4
    DIY Senior Member wallygater's Avatar
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    Default Maybe this will help

    There is a coil in the old boiler. The water heater next to the boiler, I have been told, is an indirect (storage tank)
    I can feed the boiler with cold water on 3/4 copper
    I can feed the storage tank with hot water from the boiler on 3/4 copper
    the hot water output from the storage tank has already been changed to 3/4 copper
    The only place I cant seem to change is from the storage tank, thru the pump, and then back into to boiler.
    The nipple that comes out of the bottom of the storage tank is 1/2". It turns into the pump, with is also 1/2", and then goes through that flow check valve, and then tee`s into the proposed 3/4 cold water feed into the boiler.
    I hope I was able to explain that well. It seems to my amateur eyes, that the only thing that will be restricted is the return of water from the tank to the boiler. It seems it might somewhat restrict my recovery time. keep in mind that the return would be first teeing into a 3/4 copper pipe that actually enters the boiler as the cold feed.
    Everything has an available 3/4 tap. boiler, in and out. storage tank, in and out.
    The only place I see trouble is, bottom of tank return to boiler/thru pump. Is this what you mean John?
    Thank you both for the replies. Its a lot of work if I`m just wasting my time.
    Changing out the old girl is not an option at the present time.
    I will try to post a better picture.
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    Last edited by wallygater; 02-13-2010 at 08:56 PM.
    wally

  5. #5
    Plumbing Contractor for 49 years johnjh2o1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallygater View Post
    There is a coil in the old boiler. The water heater next to the boiler, I have been told, is an indirect (storage tank)
    I can feed the boiler with cold water on 3/4 copper
    I can feed the storage tank with hot water from the boiler on 3/4 copper
    the hot water output from the storage tank has already been changed to 3/4 copper
    The only place I cant seem to change is from the storage tank, thru the pump, and then back into to boiler.
    The nipple that comes out of the bottom of the storage tank is 1/2". It turns into the pump, with is also 1/2", and then goes through that flow check valve, and then tee`s into the proposed 3/4 cold water feed into the boiler.
    I hope I was able to explain that well. It seems to my amateur eyes, that the only thing that will be restricted is the return of water from the tank to the boiler. It seems it might somewhat restrict my recovery time. keep in mind that the return would be first teeing into a 3/4 copper pipe that actually enters the boiler as the cold feed.
    Everything has an available 3/4 tap. boiler, in and out. storage tank, in and out.
    The only place I see trouble is, bottom of tank return to boiler/thru pump. Is this what you mean John?
    Thank you both for the replies. Its a lot of work if I`m just wasting my time.
    Changing out the old girl is not an option at the present time.
    I will try to post a better picture.
    What you have is a old boiler with a coil that some one has tried to pipe through a water heater as a pre heater. They have also added a circulation loop from the coil to the heater. Your domestic hot water travels through the coil into the heater then out to the fixtures. It dose not go through the cir. loop that ties into the bottom of the water heater. If your looking for a quick fix, eliminate the coil altogether and just use the water heater. As I said before the coil is where the flow restriction is coming from. As Peter said give some series thought to replacing the boiler.

    John

  6. #6
    DIY Senior Member wallygater's Avatar
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    Default coil and flow restiction

    Good morning John, Thanks for taking a look at those pictures. I am not a plumber. I am just a homeowner who is trying to understand how the hot water gets to my shower. Please bear with me. Even If I cant increase the flow of hot water at least I would like to learn how it all works.
    In the photo that I have attached, I have indicated with arrows, the direction that the water flows. Can you tell me if this is correct?

    The hot water heater as far as I know is not powered up. It says 220 volts on it. That wire is only 110. I followed the wire through the hot water heater. It looks like it is attached to a thermostat and then exits the bottom to connect to the pump.

    When you say ; "The coil is where the flow restriction is coming from" Do you mean the coil in the boiler? That coil has a 3/4 tap in and a 3/4 tap out. Please explain how that is a flow restiction?

    When you say ; "It does not go through the cir. loop that ties into the bottom of the water heater" Can you explain that to me further? What goes through that pump and back into the boiler? Are my arrows in the picture all wrong?

    This is a boiler from 1945. 65 years young and still going strong. It produces steam for my heating system..
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    wally

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