Based on the regeneration schedule channeling will not be a problem.
Last edited by Gary Slusser; 02-05-2010 at 11:50 PM.
This has turned in to a poll cat marking contest....
And I will not continue down this childish path.
That no reduction thing applies to any fixture or fitting installed in the supply line that has both an inlet and an outlet. In this case the softener does indeed have both. On other words, all the water used in the building flows through the valve head. Therefore you can not reduce through the valve. The distributor tube for all three models matches the valve head for diameter.
I will explain why. I am doing this for readers of this board because you have consistently demonstrated that you have a closed mind.
The post is wrong because the SFR of a water softener is determined by both the control head and the amount of resin in the softener. In the specific case the poster was asking about a softener that will handle a flow of 44 gpm. A Clack WS1 control valve will not provide a flow of 44 gpm at any usable pressure because according to the published specifications for the valve the pressure loss caused by the valve alone during service at a flow of 27 gpm is 15 psi. So even if you put a 7.5 cubic foot tank and the appropriate amount of resin on a 1" valve it will not provide a flow of 44 gpm.
You say that the size of the tank dictates what control is needed. This is partially true. One of the rating factors for softener valves is the size of tank the valve can backwash when used for softening applications. So far so good. A second factor in the choice of a softener valve is that the valve will provide the design flow in service at a reasonable pressure loss. In this case the 1" valve will not provide a flow of 44 gpm at a reasonable pressure loss.
Last edited by Bob999; 02-06-2010 at 07:06 AM. Reason: spelling
It is great to see so much info coming from this thread! Some of you have missed an important change...I revised the "full bore" scenario down to 20 gpm...
Normal flows = 0 - 10 gpm
Full bore = 20 - 25 gpm (both showers and say..the dw)
Last edited by riverside67; 02-06-2010 at 07:42 AM. Reason: Didnt realize this had already been mentioned
Given my limited knowledge of softeners and valves I still believe that an 1.25" valve, along with the 4.0 cu ft resin tank, would be the best choice as long as it would not create a "short circuiting" effect in the system at low flows. I greatly understand hydraulics and pressure losses in water systems but do not know how softener valves function and/or how their sizing affects the performance at given flow rates.
going with the 1.25 valve would be the way to go.
Sorry AKpsdvan, I don't understand what this is about; "This has turned in to a poll cat marking contest...." If I guess, I come up with you being upset because you think I'm pickin' nits... I wasn't but at times I think others are.
Originally Posted by Skip Wolverton
A 4 cu ft unit on 20 GPG water. You would have to use 500 gallon per day in order to regen every 8 days. IMO, a 4 cu ft is way over sized.
That's because you don't understand how to size or set up a softener by adjusting the K of capacity you need by the salt dose in lbs based on the volume and type of resin you are using so you mistakenly think 120 or128K.
Peter says; "That no reduction thing applies to any fixture or fitting installed in the supply line that has both an inlet and an outlet. In this case the softener does indeed have both. On other words, all the water used in the building flows through the valve head. Therefore you can not reduce through the valve. The distributor tube for all three models matches the valve head for diameter."
Name the code and quote it verbatim or post a link for us. I say it applies to the plumbing connectors, not the porting of the control valve, show me that I'm wrong.
After considerable effort, I found the 2008 MA plumbing code (I think Mass should be 'tighter' than others) Joints and Connections section 10:07 (7) "Increasers and Reducers. When interconnecting pipes and fittings, fittings and fittings, or pipes and fittings that have different sizes the size of the increaser or reducing fittings shall be selected and installed so as to prevent the restriction of flow between the interconnection.".There's nothing in there about fixtures, control valves by pass valves distributor tubes etc..
So Bob, I still say you are going on what you read and you are not understanding all of that and then you are missing a few points but, IMO you sound as if you have no actual field or first hand experience.
On the other hand I do have experience based on having sold all but 1300+ Clack WS-1 valves that maintain a record of the highest gpm run through them. I size for the peak demand of the house based on the number of people, bathrooms and the type of fixtures in the house, which is what we are discussing.
For what it is worth, over the last 6 yrs the 21st of last month, I have sold a number of 4 cuft softeners for 2 person showers with up to 6 body sprays and 2-3 shower heads. I proposed one yesterday or Thursday for an airline pilot's house in CO with 3 heads, one a Rainbird I think they call it, and 4 other heads up high on 2 walls. I have used the WS-1 for all of them except that one I haven't sold yet. I have never had a customer tell me they are getting leakage (hard water) through their softener or found that I underestimated their peak demand flow rate. I have never had a customer say they notice a pressure loss either.
And I see that in a later post of yours than this one that I am replying to, you still say a WS-1 is too small for Riverside.
With your going on like this I feel like the anti global warming guy must when he goes against those guys that for 20 yrs have been swearing it is, but are now found to have been using incorrect data while they still insist they're right.
Believe it or not, if I found out I had a customer where I got it wrong, I'd be sending them more resin and a larger tank and/or a larger Clack WS CS valve and distributor tube at my expense.
What I do question is your understanding that it is necessary to have both a properly sized control head and a properly sized amount of resin/tank in order to get satisfactory service. Certainly your postings here don't indicate that you understand that basic tenent of equipment selection.
I note you provide no facts or figures or explanations--you just keep putting forward the same old same old ****.
Last edited by Bob999; 02-06-2010 at 06:52 PM.
Perhaps you are referring to my post where I said that my opinion was that a 1" valve would not provide satisfactory service at a flow of 25 gpm. A Clack WS1 will have a pressure drop of nearly 15 psi at a flow of 25 gpm and I don't think that would be satisfactory.
Last edited by Bob999; 02-06-2010 at 05:04 PM.