New House, Shared Well, Iron and H2S

[Gary Slusser]

Yes there are many choices of treatment for water containing H2S and iron. IMO my suggestion is best overall but mostly for the minimal maintenance and very wide flexibility built into the system while it gives you bacteria free water while none of the others can.

Yes the carbon filter is automatically backwashed every 3-6 days depending on your water usage, the size of the filter required based on your peak demand flow rate for the house and how much iron the chlorinator has to deal with.

The carbon removes the chlorine and clarifies the water of all the 'dirt' the oxidation part of the chlorination causes. The water used will be less than most if not all other media would require.

To discuss this more you have to call me.

[Twinpeaksr]

To discuss this more you have to call me.

Thanks for the great conversation today, you definitely know your stuff! As I digest what I have learned, I had one open question:

What are the benefits of the chlorinator/carbon filter over a media based iron filter or an aerator? Always looking to learn something new.

thanks again!

~R~

[Akpsdvan]

With the chlorinator if it is a dry pellet feeder in the water stream there will be build up of the binder of the chlorine tablets, then changing of the carbon media every X number of years.
Aerator... oh that can and will be a mess... think of it this why, they do work if done right, BUT,, Remember the photos that they show as to why one should eat low fat foods? the build up of Cholesterol in the arteries? or turning 1" pipe to 1/2" pipe with the iron build up..
There are any number of service calls that I do that are on Iron filters that use Air to oxidize the iron... and it can and often is a blood bath.

[Bob999]

One of the factors to consider with a chlorinator is the ongoing operational costs. Food grade chlorine pellets are a very expensive way to buy chlorine. The actual amount you use will depend on your water, how the system is set up and maintained, etc. but a cost of $150 per year for pellets is a ballpark figure.

If you go with a chlorinator an option is an injection pump and use regular household bleach. The chlorine cost is 1/10 or less (less than $15 per year) of the cost from pellets.

Gary strongly dislikes solution feeders and will give you all the disadvantages.

There was an extensive discussion in this thread on this board:

http://terrylove.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33701

If you have bacteria problems then chlorination is a very desirable way to go because it deals with the bacteria as well as the iron and H2S. If you don't have a bacteria problem then a filter has a lot less maintenance as compared to either a pellet chlorinator or a solution feeder.

[Peter Griffin]

Yep, here we go again

[canear]

Not an expert like the rest of them but we just had chlorine injection put in for sulfur. In fact very high sulfur caused by sulfur bacteria. We chose this system because it seemed that no matter where we went for adivse the concenses was chlorine or peroxide for sulfur bacteria and high sulfur levels. All systems are maintenance, we have had in past houses water softeners, iron filters and in this house filter that uses air... it didn't clog for us but it didn't get rid of the sulfur smell or taste, it did improve it.
The chlorine injection which is followed by retention tank and carbon filter has worked wonders in this house for the first time in 20 years we can actually drink good tasting water. We just had it installed so maybe a year from now I may think differently. So far I haven't had to do anything. It looks like the tank that holds the bleach and water mix, won't have to have any filling ( going by how much it used up so far) for at least a couple of more months. They installed a small hose right after the carbon filter to use for adding the water. Then it is mixing a bottle of bleach to 7 gallons of water. When spring rolls around put a hose on retention tank and flush. Backwashing carbon filter regenerates once a week and carbon will need to be replaced in 3 to 5 years I was told at a cost of $150. Doesn't seem so bad. I understand it is good for iron as well although I can't say we have low iron and didn't need a softener. As I said a year from now I may think differently if there is need for repairs etc. But right now we have clear good tasting water that we can actually drink and doesn't smell for the first time in 20 years.

Just an opinion.

[Twinpeaksr]

Thanks for all the input. Not looking to debate Bleach injection here, looks like that has been done. Just want so pros/cons of Iron Filter vs Chlorinator.

Looking at what I have seen, it seems the Chlorinator gives the added bonus of taking care of Bacteria, the Well I have has no bacteria and is tested anually for it (never had any issues). So while that is nice, does not do much for me.

Sounds like the Carbon filter is great to take care of many things in the water, but it would not take care of H2S, which is why the Chlorinator would also be needed.

The Iron Filter would take care of the Fe and H2S, but may not be 100% effective with the H2S, also have seen that it takes quite a bit of water to backwash (may be untrue, what I have heard varies by a factor of 10). It does have the plus of not having to add anything (IE Cl).

Any other info I am missing?

Thanks!

~R~

[Akpsdvan]

It is good to hear from some one that has a system along the lines of what is getting talked about.

[Twinpeaksr]

It is good to hear from some one that has a system along the lines of what is getting talked about.

I second that!

[Akpsdvan]

Some thing else that needs to be thought of is "Space for Equipment"

What kind of room is there for holding tanks, pumps, storage tanks, media tanks....

If one has the room then retention tanks with chlorine , ozone are ways, if room is limited then there are other ideas that one is going to have to look into... 1 or 2 pieces of equipment to do the job.

Oh, what is the Ph of the water?

[Gary Slusser]

Thanks for the great conversation today, you definitely know your stuff! As I digest what I have learned, I had one open question:

What are the benefits of the chlorinator/carbon filter over a media based iron filter or an aerator? Always looking to learn something new.

thanks again! ~R~

Air with an air pump or air injection system should be your last choice. I never sold air injection but have service many and I sold air pumps for years until I found the chlorination system we are discussing here. That was 15 yrs ago.

An iron/H2S filter comes in two versions; backwash only or regenerated with something, usually potassium permanganate but it could be chlorinated water also. For 4-5 yrs I sold many Pyrolox filters regenerated with about 3" of chlorinated water out of a 18 x 33" salt tank. They worked for about 4-6 yrs and then had to be rebeded and people usually went with another choice instead of doing that because of the expense of Pyrolox.

In your case, especially with a potential of varying iron content, the filter will have to be LARGE! (2.5' or larger) and set up for the possible 5 ppm.

And to successfully and consistently backwash or regenerate it over years is probably not going to happen, and then what do you do when it starts failing?

You dump everything and replace the mineral or use a new kind to see how it works or, you start over with a different type of treatment; which more than likely will be chlorination.

Or... since 5 houses are using this well, and each family may have growing children as you do, and maybe more kids (like you want), means more water being pulled out of this community type well.

That means it's more likely that the iron and H2S present today will increase along with bacteria (IRB or SRB) being found eventually.That's why I propose my chlorination system. It works every time and for all future contingencies, has a 21 gpm flow rating, minimal maintenance requirements and takes up no more space than a regenerated filter would.

I and my customers have installed the pellet hopper, mixing tank, carbon filter out in front of the mixing tank and the softener resin tank with the salt tank under the hopper in less than 4.5'-5' along a wall and out from the wall about 20", so it doesn't take much space.

The pellets I use do not have the problems AK mentioned. Yes they cost like $12/month if bought annually but most customers are not buying new pellets every 12 months. The thread at the link Bob posted is showcasing a paranoid young lady's system. It is abnormal and her experience is exaggerated while we were joking.

The carbon lasts for many years (5+) and I've only had 2-3 customers with water leaks have to replace it in less time than that. The carbon is not regular carbon.

[Twinpeaksr]

Air with an air pump or air injection system should be your last choice. I never sold air injection but have service many and I sold air pumps for years until I found the chlorination system we are discussing here. That was 15 yrs ago.

An iron/H2S filter comes in two versions; backwash only or regenerated with something, usually potassium permanganate but it could be chlorinated water also. For 4-5 yrs I sold many Pyrolox filters regenerated with about 3" of chlorinated water out of a 18 x 33" salt tank. They worked for about 4-6 yrs and then had to be rebeded and people usually went with another choice instead of doing that because of the expense of Pyrolox.

In your case, especially with a potential of varying iron content, the filter will have to be LARGE! (2.5' or larger) and set up for the possible 5 ppm.

And to successfully and consistently backwash or regenerate it over years is probably not going to happen, and then what do you do when it starts failing?

You dump everything and replace the mineral or use a new kind to see how it works or, you start over with a different type of treatment; which more than likely will be chlorination.

Or... since 5 houses are using this well, and each family may have growing children as you do, and maybe more kids (like you want), means more water being pulled out of this community type well.

That means it's more likely that the iron and H2S present today will increase along with bacteria (IRB or SRB) being found eventually.That's why I propose my chlorination system. It works every time and for all future contingencies, has a 21 gpm flow rating, minimal maintenance requirements and takes up no more space than a regenerated filter would.

I and my customers have installed the pellet hopper, mixing tank, carbon filter out in front of the mixing tank and the softener resin tank with the salt tank under the hopper in less than 4.5'-5' along a wall and out from the wall about 20", so it doesn't take much space.

The pellets I use do not have the problems AK mentioned. Yes they cost like $12/month if bought annually but most customers are not buying new pellets every 12 months. The thread at the link Bob posted is showcasing a paranoid young lady's system. It is abnormal and her experience is exaggerated while we were joking.

The carbon lasts for many years (5+) and I've only had 2-3 customers with water leaks have to replace it in less time than that. The carbon is not regular carbon.

That is what I needed to know, thanks again!

[Bob999]

I want to make clear that I believe that a properly designed and maintained system like the one Gary prefers--pellet chlorination, retention tank, and a properly sized Centaur carbon backwashing filter works with the water condition being discussed in this thread.

In my opinion some of the cost claims are subject to question.

It is true that Iron filter media does sometimes fail--usually because of improper application or improper mainenance--and it is expensive to replace. It is also true that all media will likely have to be replaced at some point in the future even if properly applied and maintained. That is true for Filox as well as for Pyrolox.

However Centaur Carbon is also expensive to replace and it must be replaced on a periodic basis even when the application is proper and it is properly maintained because its capacity to remove chlorine is gradually used up. Centaur carbon, like virtually all media, will fail prematurely if it is not "successfully and consistently" backwashed when in service.

If your application would require a very large iron filter as Gary states then it would also require a very large Centaur carbon filter--the size of the filter is determined by the design flow. A 2 cubic foot Filox filter with Vortech tank will handle a flow of 12 gpm and will backwash with 10 gpm. Perhaps Gary can tell us what size Centaur Carbon filter will handle a flow of 12 gpm and what the backwash rate is on that filter. I hope he will also tell us the size of Centaur carbon filter that will handle the 21 gpm flow that he quotes for his chlorination system!

So my point here is to be careful to do comparisons with full data and if cost is one of the considerations in your decision making then be sure you get good information about all relevant costs before making your decision.

[Akpsdvan]

But when using a well one also looks to have Turn over with in the well and good runs on the pump that is in the well.

Ask a well driller which is better short runs on pumps and pulling water out of the well or longer runs on the pump and more of a turn over on the water within the well casing.

[Gary Slusser]

I want to make clear that I believe that a properly designed and maintained system like the one Gary prefers--pellet chlorination, retention tank, and a properly sized Centaur carbon backwashing filter works with the water condition being discussed in this thread.

Yes they do.

In my opinion some of the cost claims are subject to question.

It is true that Iron filter media does sometimes fail--usually because of improper application or improper mainenance--and it is expensive to replace. It is also true that all media will likely have to be replaced at some point in the future even if properly applied and maintained. That is true for Filox as well as for Pyrolox.

However Centaur Carbon is also expensive to replace and it must be replaced on a periodic basis even when the application is proper and it is properly maintained because its capacity to remove chlorine is gradually used up. Centaur carbon, like virtually all media, will fail prematurely if it is not "successfully and consistently" backwashed when in service.

If your application would require a very large iron filter as Gary states then it would also require a very large Centaur carbon filter--the size of the filter is determined by the design flow. A 2 cubic foot Filox filter with Vortech tank will handle a flow of 12 gpm and will backwash with 10 gpm. Perhaps Gary can tell us what size Centaur Carbon filter will handle a flow of 12 gpm and what the backwash rate is on that filter. I hope he will also tell us the size of Centaur carbon filter that will handle the 21 gpm flow that he quotes for his chlorination system!

So my point here is to be careful to do comparisons with full data and if cost is one of the considerations in your decision making then be sure you get good information about all relevant costs before making your decision.

Iron/H2S filter media fails very frequently IMO. That's becasue most of it is very heavy and difficult to backwash properly.

I have already told Twinpeaksr what size filter and softener his house and family require. If you were my prospective customer I would tell you too; you aren't, and it seems you have some need to pick at things I say while I see no need for it.

I mentioned the hopper and mixing tank has a 21 gpm rating. That does not mean the filter or softener requires the same SFR rating. It does mean that a solution feeder system that you have mentioned would require a much larger retention than a 120 gallons or the mixing tank I use and most dealers won't use. And a larger than 15 gallon solution tank unless the person is going to refill it every few days or weekly etc..

Yes Centaur is expensive but not the most expensive when compared to a number of iron filter media that will also remove H2S at the flow rates that Twinpeaksr needs. Also, although I am sure some of my customers have had to replace their Centaur by now, they aren't buying it from me or letting me know they have to except the 3-4 that have had water leaks. If I had Centaur listed on my web site maybe I'd know of others.

BTW, the same cuft of most iron/H2S filter media will require a higher backwash gpm and thereby tehy will use more water than the same cuft of Centaur. And that will be true with a Vortech tank (unless of course you want to insure the filter's operation using less water Bob).