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Thread: Ridiculous gas bills with Naviens!!

  1. #16

    Default The little tank is still not the best answer

    Why? Because of the heating elements and the timer. If the timer is "on" and the circ pump is "on" and you are running water around an uninsulated loop for 15minutes at a time, guess what else is "on"? THe elements! at what 1000w? 1500w? Thats like 25 light bulbs.

    Tankless water heaters are not "Instant" water heaters! If you want "instant" you need some kind of recirc unit. THe ACT Metlund is the best thing going right now for residential application in my opinion for any hot water system and for the same reasons. Solve one problem without creating more.

    BTW, if you have to delime every 6 months, you have other problems. you need a softener system. If you had a tank on that same rotten water, it would probably only last a few years, and if it were electric you'd have constant element issues. so nice try. At least you CAN delime a tankless.

  2. #17
    DIY Senior Member Runs with bison's Avatar
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    Aug 2009
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    Midwest
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Doherty Plumbing View Post
    Because the tankless units aren't super efficient when they're heating water up 10 or 20 degrees. Any gas heating appliance with a low run fraction are terribly inefficient. You don't know this? A condensing appliance actually needs to be condensing to get it's super efficient ratings.

    The electric tank is very efficient all the time...
    Electric resistance heating is never very efficient when you draw the box properly. Sure you can have a well insulated tank with what appears to be very high efficiency, but generation of electricity is much less thermodynamically efficient than simply burning the fuel to create low level heat in the first place.

    The above is why electric resistance water heating costs so much more than natural gas in most places. If you have nuke, wind, or hydro your electric cost will be much lower but for coal and natural gas the thermal efficiency is poor.

    By putting in the electric water heater the operating cost advantages of the tankless have just been lost.

  3. #18
    DIY Junior Member Central Coastal's Avatar
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    Jan 2010
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    California Central Coast
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    Default Most likely recirc settings

    We replaced a tank unit with a Navien CR-240A about a month ago and was shocked to find our gas usage has now doubled!

    Turns out the remote controller was not installed AND the unit was set to external recirculation. So, the unit has been recirculating 24/7 all this time.

    After installing and programming the remote controller the unit only kicks on during usage and recirculating periods (as expected). Should see a huge difference in gas usage... hopefully.

  4. #19

    Default Who installed it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Central Coastal View Post
    We replaced a tank unit with a Navien CR-240A about a month ago and was shocked to find our gas usage has now doubled!

    Turns out the remote controller was not installed AND the unit was set to external recirculation. So, the unit has been recirculating 24/7 all this time.

    After installing and programming the remote controller the unit only kicks on during usage and recirculating periods (as expected). Should see a huge difference in gas usage... hopefully.
    My Question is who installed it? Were they trained? Did you DIY it to save money?

    If you paid an installing trained and licensed contractor you should have a chat with them.

    If you did it yourself...that's why you should have hired a trained and licensed contractor.

    Other installation errors can shorten the life of the product as well as cost you money on energy or be hazardous.

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