Lots of air in lines

I have a 175 foot well with a submersible pump. It has been fine for 15 years. I replaced the holding tank(bladder) about 5 years ago. Now all of a sudden for a week or so now I am getting lots of air in the supply lines.

I drained the pressure tank and checked the air, it was only down 2 lbs-36, and I pumped it back to 38 lbs. It did not help at all.

It is worse in the morning when none of the water has been run all night. I can go to each faucet and let it run and surge/purge the air out of them and after a while they are OK.

With the amount of air that I am getting I am thinking that it might some kind of check valve somewhere that is allowing the water from the supply lines to drain back down......just a guess.

I did notice that the pressure gauge by my take reads at the max 100+, the needle right on the high stop peg, but it has moisture in it also.

Any insight would be much appreciated. I can take some pics of my setup if that would help.

The pump does not cycle abnormally.

I do get a hammer noise out by the control box when the pump shuts off. I don't get any hammer at the faucets or toilets at all. It's has done the hammering the whole time we have been here. They installed one of the X-trol boxes on the hot water tank thinking that would help, it did not.

Thanks, Mitch

It sounds as if you have a water leak somewhere, and if you have a check valve at the pressure tank, it is hiding its symptoms which are pressure loss when no water is being used. The leak will have to be above the water level in the well.

It's probably leaking at the pitless adaptor. Take the cap off the well and have a look down there with the pump off.

There is a hole or crack in the drop pipe.
It is more than likely at the pump where the pipe ties to the pump.

Could even be a bad check valve, but to get air in the line, something would have to let the air in.

You may even be pulling the well down till the pump caveatted. That would put air in without any other problem.
Have you noticed it taking longer to pump up?




Travis

It takes about as long as usual to pump up and shut off.

I'm not well savvy, but am mechanically inclined. What should I be looking for in the pitless adaptor? I have most tools, including a couple of pipe wrenches...Is there anything special I will need?

I get pretty much instant air in the mornings, why would the supply lines have air in them right from the get go?

Thanks for all the insight already...keep them coming, Mitch

p.s---the water did have some very fine sand in it when it first started happening, but none anymore and I do have a media filter and softener on it.

The other comments are right however! With a bladder tank other than the check valve on the pump or at the pump there should not be any other check valve in the line.
It sounds to me like there is an extra check valve in the line and there is a leak in the line somewhere. When the pump shuts off the water drains somewhere( pitless; hole in the drop pipe or in the offset line between the well and the check valve at the tank.
When the pump shuts off, water drains back somewhere (above the water line) allowing air to enter the system. It would be more noticable in the morning after setting over night because the air settles to the top and is purged into the line when you turn on a faucet or faucets in the morning.
The solution is to find the leak and stop it. That may even stop the water hammer you are experiencing. If not you may want to install a Cycle Stop Valve www.cyclestopvalves.com. Besides a CSV will give you constant pressure like city water pressure.
The pressure guage is also defective. . . replace it.

Ok, so I don't see any water between the well top and the pressure tank....but this is Washington and in the winter, the ground never really dries out.

I opened up the top and this is a picture I snapped.



Ran the pump while I had the top off and heard a lot of hissing and a little gurgling. I doubt if that is a good thing.

I took a video of the sounds that it is making if that helps.

Thanks, Mitch

madmmac said:

Ok, so I don't see any water between the well top and the pressure tank....but this is Washington and in the winter, the ground never really dries out.

Ran the pump while I had the top off and heard a lot of hissing and a little gurgling. I doubt if that is a good thing. I took a video of the sounds that it is making if that helps.

Click to expand...

Which proves the leak I and others have mentioned to you days ago.

Now you or someone like a pump guy or driller, not most plumbers unless they are capable and want to pull the pump, needs to pull the pump and fix the water leak in the drop pipe and put things back together.

The hole in the top of the pitless adapter in your picture accepts a 1" MPT pipe that has a tee handle on it enabling the drop pipe and pump to be lifted out of the dovetail part of the pitless and then to pull the pump out. Depending on how deep the pump is and what type of drop pipe, galvanized, PE or sch 40/80 PVC, the weight may be too much to allow you to do this by hand.

aquaman2000 said:

I would get the pitless up above grade, cut or unthread the pitless off the pipe, and see if there is any water in the drop pipe. If there is, then your leak is propbably in the line. In a situtation like this, i put a plug in the pitless, put it back in place, and pressurise the line inside to be sure that you are not wasting money in excavation. A good pump guy would know how to do this.

aquaman

Click to expand...

Yeah I did the same thing after determining there was no leak in the drop pipe. In this case he is hearing the leak in the well. And a small leak under pressure probably will not show up simply by looking at the water level in the drop pipe. Because of that probability, at times I pressurized the drop pipe(s) too.

Follow up---You guys were right on about the leak in the down pipe.

3 tiny, I mean tiny pin holes in one of the galvanized pipe. Looks like electrolysis as it was right were the pump wires were taped to.

Replaced 3 sections with pvc just to be safe and life is good. Went all the way down to the pump and replace the check valve on the bottom.

Still get the banging in the house when the pump shuts off. Looking at the valve in the garage by the pressure tank, it's all copper and soldered in, but does have threads. How do I change that guy out? Just unthread it? Are the check valves left hand thread on one end and right hand on the other....then you just unscrew it?

Thanks everyone....Mitch

A picture of the the tank and pressure switch piping would be helpful.

Here it is.

I've not seen a check valve quite like that one but I do believe it is a check valve. It won't un-thread from the line without cutting off one end or the other.

If you can solder, you could pull the joints apart to remove the threaded fittings along with the check valve and then solder a new piece of copper in. A plumber would have it done in 15 minutes if the water was all drained from the lines when he gets there.

Don't burn your house down.

It is a spring loaded check valve.

Does look to be a pain to work on.... and little room to make a mistake on some thing.

Yup, you'll need a torch to unsolder one of the ends. You'll have to drain that section completely before attempting to unsolder it. Looks like a tight space. Be careful.

-rick

madmmac said:

Follow up---You guys were right on about the leak in the down pipe.

3 tiny, I mean tiny pin holes in one of the galvanized pipe. Looks like electrolysis as it was right were the pump wires were taped to.

Replaced 3 sections with pvc just to be safe and life is good. Went all the way down to the pump and replace the check valve on the bottom.

Still get the banging in the house when the pump shuts off. Looking at the valve in the garage by the pressure tank, it's all copper and soldered in, but does have threads. How do I change that guy out? Just unthread it? Are the check valves left hand thread on one end and right hand on the other....then you just unscrew it?

Thanks everyone....Mitch

Click to expand...

That is a check valve and the threads are normal lefty loosey. Whoever installed it like that should be shot. Cut the plumbing so you can unscrew the house side and then unscrew it from the male and put things back together without it and maybe use a couple unions to do it.