Rough-in Comments Please

Fein · Dec 9, 2009

I would greatly appreciate any comments the shower rough-in below.

The setup: a rain shower always running and a handheld on a separate valve.

Pictured is a pressure balanced mixer with 1/2" inlets and 3/4" supplies.
A 3/4" shower riser leads to a ceiling mounted rain shower head.
The tee is 1/2" to a valve for a handheld.

A few questions:

1. I haven't tested the pipes from the mixer to the heads for leaks because I was afraid of damaging the mixer cartridge if I opened the shutoffs with the shower heads capped. Is this a valid concern? I figured I would run some hoses from the drop elbows to the drain to test.

2. I soldered the nipple to the drop elbow for the handheld supply because it only sits 1/2" proud of the finish wall tile. Is this a typical way to do it?

3. The outlet is very close (not touching anything). Is this a problem?

Thanks very much (and particular thanks to those who overlook the sloppy soldering- still getting the hang of it...)

Ian Gills · Dec 9, 2009

3/4 inch supplies. Jesus.

Are you going to be washing a car with that thing?

Sponsor · 2022-01-29T12:20:58-0800

NHmaster · Dec 9, 2009

Looks good. I test with air because it's easier to fix a leak if I have one.

Fein · Dec 9, 2009

Good idea to test with air- thanks.

Ian- I don't know, I guess I'm a dirty guy.
I wanted to be sure there was enough water for both shower heads.

Ian Gills · Dec 9, 2009

The electrical box feeding the receptacle on the wall behind can be there. But make sure the cables are secured to the studs within 12 inches of leaving the box. And nail protectors on the studs too. I'd use one for the shower riser and another two for where the electrical cables pass through the studs too.

Fein · Dec 9, 2009

more good tips- thanks.
so soldering the nipple to the drop elbow is the usual way to go?

Scuba_Dave · Dec 9, 2009

You need the nail plates when the wire is closer then 1.25" to the face of the stud
I sometimes put them on anyways

hj · Dec 10, 2009

nipple

I question the logic of having the rainfall head running all the time, even when using the handheld. To me it would be like watering your lawn with a hose during a thunderstorm, (although I did know one lady who did so. She believed the rain water was harmful to the grass so she "washed" it off.) I hope you did not "screw" yourself by soldering the nipple into the elbow. IF the final dimension is NOT what you calculated, you will have a devil of a time getting it out to install the right sized one. THAT is one thing I would NEVER have done, and cannot imagine any plumber even considering it, therefore it is NOT a usual thing to do.

WallyGater · Dec 10, 2009

Rough-in

Rain head always running, not a good idea. A Rain head is more for a feel good type of shower. If you really want a strong classic style shower you will need a real shower head. The hand held is also just a novelty item, not good for a "real" shower. This is just my opinion, buy two more flow valves, one for the rain head, handheld, and shower head. Now you can control each component of the shower independently.

Jimbo · Dec 10, 2009

From the standpoint of total water flow.....Algore needs to talk to you@!

And from the stanpoint of how much HOT water that will use, you might need to rethink the size of your water heater, and also the size of your gas bill!

Fein · Dec 10, 2009

responses

HJ- Originally I planning on putting a valve on the rain shower as well- but I was concerned that this might damage the mixer cartirdge when someone turns just the valves off instead of the mixer to shut off the shower. Is there any validity to this concern?

I did screw myself by soldering on the nipple. No big deal - I'll cut it out. I was actually thinking of advice you gave regarding soldering threaded mixer connections.

Gater- The valve and trim kit set me back $100. I can live without two more. I've used a rainshower before- I am pretty comfortable with it. That said, I agree that it is a little fru-fru.

Jimbo- As far as using too much water- it'll be 5 gpm if I leave the restrictors on and run both. And the two heads allow the boss and me to shower together in comfort- which saves water too. Al probably uses more to brush his teeth!

Krow · Dec 10, 2009

The only concern that you may have.

If you add another valve to your rainhead, there is the potential to leave the mixing valve on and using the individual valves. In doing so, if your mixer does not have internal check valves, the hot water will tranfer into your cold side and vise-versa.

Fein · Dec 10, 2009

Thanks Krow. I don't see internal check valves in the mixer specs- I take it they are not a standard item.

That said I guess I'll stick with this setup. Plus I don't see how this is much different than having 4 body sprays and all that other junk people have nowadays...

A side question- when I had my rough plumbing inspection for a different bathroom with a tub, I had the tub in place with the drain hooked up. Is it SOP to have the shower walls and drain in place for rough plumbing inspections?

Thanks again for all the help.

hj · Dec 11, 2009

plumbing

My reference to soldering the adapters to the valve was for connections which would NEVER have to be taken apart, not for shower heads or similar connections. You would be better off using a two port diverter valve which toggles between the two devices, but only shuts off the unneeded one, so you would ALWAYS have to turn off the main valve when the shower was completed. The valve would not be damaged by having both devices shut off, but you could cause perplexing symptoms when your hot and cold in the rest of the house had fluctuating temperatures. I would rethink your decision to leave it as is, because you are going to have to live with your decision for the rest of your life, or at least until you decide to remodel and convert it to proper operation.

WallyGater · Dec 11, 2009

set me back $100

I know what you mean. This is what my rough in set me back:
three valve and trim kits 300.
temp. mix valve 500.
3/4 inch valve body 100.
three sprays and trim kits 300.
hand shower and trim 300.
shower head 50.
total 1550.00
matching vanity sink faucet 350.
Grand Total 1900.00 (and that was a wholesale price)Retail was about double
60 Lt. of 3/4 copper pipe, fittings, tools, flux, solder about 250. bucks
Installation FREE
no leaks Priceless
Was the shower worth it, You Bet

hj · Dec 12, 2009

prices

You do not give makes and models, but the prices seem to be above wholesale, but unless you are a PLUMBING contractor, I would hope the supply houses did not sell them to you at what they would charge me. If they did sell them at my prices, then I would want to know who they are so I could make sure I do not buy from them.

Fein · Dec 12, 2009

Proper operation

Hj-
When you say "proper operation", do you mean that it will not function as intended or that this setup is just not typical (or worse- some code violation)? Your comments and insight are much appreciated.

hj · Dec 12, 2009

shower

Codes do NOT care how you operate your shower. By proper operation, I mean that you are going to be mightily displeased if you are constantly deluged with water, even though you want to only use the handheld. And since you are being flooded with water, there would be little need for the handheld anyway. "Proper operation" would be to have a valve which selected either of the two, to the exclusion of the other.

WallyGater · Dec 12, 2009

prices

Brand: BRIZO
Model: Total Escape 3/4 inch high flow top of the line
Retail price: Astronomical
Supply House price: About the same
E--Y: Half Price of retail

hj · Dec 13, 2009

hand held

Have you given any consideration to the possibility that the rainfall head will consume ALL the pressure, especially with a 3/4" feed, and therefore, you will only have a little residual pressure plus the one pound or so caused by the handheld being lower than the rainfall? The worst case scenario would be a handheld that you have to hold over your head or wherever you want the water, because it will be "falling" out of the nozzle, not spraying out.

Rough-in Comments Please

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