New drain install question?

blazer · Nov 15, 2009

I have a corner shower to install, in a exsisting basement bath with no shower or tub in it now. Instead of breaking the concreate open, I see there is, what I think is a clean out in the corner where I would put the base. It is a 4" pipe wth a lid. I remove the lid and discovered that inside down about 8" or so is another 4" pipe (inside the first pipe) with a lid that looks like it twist off with your fingers. I did not get it off it was to tight without a tool and I was just there checking the job and had no tools. My thought is that this is a clean out and I was going to put my base on a 2x4 frame and just run my 2" drain down that clean out. Does this sound O.K. to do? Thanks for any response.

hj · Nov 15, 2009

drain

IT sounds like NO-NO idea. A cleanout is exactly that, a CLEANOUT not a drain connection, and it is there for a reason, namely to cleanout a sewer if it becomes obstructed. ALL codes specify that a cleanout CANNOT be used for a drain connection. Besides the cleanout is under the plug, not the riser box enclosing it. and you would probably not have any way to make a proper seal to the pipe even if you did try to use it.

Sponsor · 2022-01-29T12:20:58-0800

blazer · Nov 15, 2009

Is it a clean out, or could it be there for future use? It is a newer home. I was going to use a PVC bushing 4" to 2" to connect.

blazer · Nov 15, 2009

Would't busting the floor and bringing the drain up be the same concept as the clean out, if that is a clean out.

blazer · Nov 15, 2009

I have to leave for a while, Thank you for your input.

Inspektor Ludwig · Nov 15, 2009

Yikes,
yeah, that's a no no. Where would you run your vent (scratching head)?

blazer · Nov 15, 2009

Talked to a plumber at Loews, this is what he had to say. I can use it as a drain supply as long as it is trapped. He says to take the cover off poor water down, if the water goes down and then water still sits at the bottom it is trapped. If no water sits you must trap your drain. He also said not to use a bushing just drop the 2" pipe down the hole.
He claims that it must have that air, don't seal it inside. Thanks for the first response, but still confussed. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you.

Terry · Nov 15, 2009

Break the concrete and charge for the job.

Have you ever stepped out of a shower that was built up?
I have.
It's a lawsuit waiting to happen.

Break the concrete, find the pipe, and wye into it.

You will need a 2" p-trap that is vented within five feet.
Without the vent, the trap will siphon.
Also without the trap, you will have sewer smell in the basement of the home.
Don't ever get advice from a handyman working at Lowes.
They like to think they can give plumbing advice since they are standing in the plumbing isle.
But most have never picked up a plumbing tool in their life.

Pull a permit.
Let the local plumbing inspector check your work.
He is your friend, he will prevent you from screwing up the job.
And help maintain your reputation as a quality contractor.

Inspektor Ludwig · Nov 15, 2009

First of all, I know it's tempting but don't listen to a "plumber" at the big box stores. Code says that you cannot use a clean out for a drain period. Since you may have a drain line just below the slab it might not be all that bad to chip up some concrete and install the drain and vent the correct way. That clean out is there for a reason and if you ever have a plug in the line, you'll appreciate that clean out even more. Waste and vent lines are tricky but are pretty black and white when it comes to the code. They have to be installed per code in order to function properly and maintain sanitary conditions, if not then you're going to have trouble, ask any pro. You'll have trouble.

Doherty Plumbing · Nov 15, 2009

blazer said:
Talked to a plumber at Loews

I really almost fell out of my chair laughing at this. A plumber at Loews lol.

I know in the Canadian National code there is nothing that says specifically you can't use a cleanout as a place to connect a new drain line.

However there are MULTIPLE things you'd need to take into consideration if you wanted to use that cleanout as a drain. But the big 3 are:

1. The fitting must be a wye and not a T on it's back.
2. You must separately vent the shower which is gonna be VERY tough because you can't run a flat dry vent. You must take off with your vent at a nominally vertical angle (45 degrees or more). Good luck doing that inside the floor under the shower without hitting the bottom of the shower or coming out of the floor.
3. You need to relocate that cleanout (at the proper size) to a new accessible location.

You can run a flat vent as long as it's a wet vent. So then you'd most likely need route the drain from you lav to wet vent the shower. But then you're probably gonna mess up the venting to your toilet.

Bottom line is that you're opening up a can of worms by trying to put a shower where it's not designed to go. But if you want a hack-DIY job then listen to the guy at lowes.

blazer · Nov 15, 2009

Thank you! I was afraid this may be a problem. May have under bid this one!

Inspektor Ludwig · Nov 15, 2009

Uh oh, you had to go and bring up the wet vent, now it's gonna get really confusing! LOL, I wonder if the guy at Lowe's knows what a wet vent is? Bets anyone? Btw, don't people doing plumbing in Ohio have to be licensed?

Doherty Plumbing · Nov 15, 2009

blazer said:
Thank you! I was afraid this may be a problem. May have under bid this one!

Yes these jobs that look quick and easy can very quickly become 12 hour jobs.

blazer · Nov 15, 2009

The guy at Loews was a shopping plumber not an employee. He still may have not been that sharp though. Ha! Ha! You do need a permit in Ohio but the customer did not want me to pull one. Still I want to do the job correctly with or with out one. Thanks for all the input, I am glad you are there to help.

Doherty Plumbing · Nov 15, 2009

blazer said:
The guy at Loews was a shopping plumber not an employee. He still may have not been that sharp though. Ha! Ha! You do need a permit in Ohio but the customer did not want me to pull one. Still I want to do the job correctly with or with out one. Thanks for all the input, I am glad you are there to help.

Lots of people who glue pipe togeather call themselves plumbers.... If he's shopping at lowes it's because he doesn't have an account with a wholesaler. Which means he's probably not an accredited plumber. He just glues pipes togeather.

And judging by the advice he gave you it's clear he's never done a day of schooling in his life in regards to plumbing.

Dlarrivee · Nov 15, 2009

blazer said:
Talked to a plumber at Loews, this is what he had to say. I can use it as a drain supply as long as it is trapped. He says to take the cover off poor water down, if the water goes down and then water still sits at the bottom it is trapped. If no water sits you must trap your drain. He also said not to use a bushing just drop the 2" pipe down the hole.
He claims that it must have that air, don't seal it inside. Thanks for the first response, but still confussed. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you.

The person you talked to a Lowes was not a plumber...

hj · Nov 15, 2009

plumber?

Well, six munce ago he cudn't spell plummer, but now he are one.

blazer · Nov 16, 2009

Well just found out my clean out isn't a clean out anyway. It is a backwater valve. It had a liner around it for cement purposes I guess. This is the first time I have seen one. I am NOT a plumber. Doesn't look like I will be putting my shower base over it, you must have access right? Does anyone know about what it would cost a professional to relocate this thing if possible?

Dlarrivee · Nov 16, 2009

blazer said:
Well just found out my clean out isn't a clean out anyway. It is a backwater valve. It had a liner around it for cement purposes I guess. This is the first time I have seen one. I am NOT a plumber. Doesn't look like I will be putting my shower base over it, you must have access right? Does anyone know about what it would cost a professional to relocate this thing if possible?

Why don't you call a plumber and ask him what he'll charge you

Doherty Plumbing · Nov 16, 2009

Rates are 100% dependant on where you live and who answers the phone

Relocating ANYTHING in a cement slab is costly! But you could always do the grunt work yourself and have the plumber tell you where to dig a new trench etc. Then have him come back and lay the piping down.

If it's even possible/practicle in your situation.

Moving ground work plumbing is especially difficult because the pipe is laid to grade for a given length. If you start offsetting and jotting around you're adding length to the pipe and you may not make grade where you need to connect back up.

The best thing you can do is pay for a service call to have a plumber come give you your options.

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