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Thread: American Recovery and Reinvestment Act and the Buy American Act

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    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    Default American Recovery and Reinvestment Act and the Buy American Act

    The intent of the AMERICAN RECOVERY AND REINVESTMENT ACT (ARRA) that President Obama signed into law on February 17, 2009 is to reinvigorate our economy with new projects that put Americans back to work. There is also a provision in the act that invokes the BUY AMERICAN ACT, which will help bring more manufacturers into the process and thus compound the economic boost by allowing more industries to support new projects.

    Qualifying TOTO Products for ARRA and BAA

    TOTO USA, which has significant manufacturing operations outside of Atlanta, GA, offers over 1,000 products that meet the requirements of the ARRA and the BUY AMERICAN ACT (BAA) of 1933. Plus, according to the BAA, products from designated countries qualify as a part of the recovery package. These countries include: World Trade Organization Government Procurement Agreement countries; Free Trade Agreements countries; Caribbean-Basin countries; or one of several “least developed” countries around the world.

    Click here to download a PDF list of TOTO's compliant ARRA/BAA products

    http://www.totousa.com/Portals/0/Bro...O-BAA_0809.pdf

    Last edited by Terry; 10-18-2009 at 11:31 AM.

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    DIY Member organic_smallhome's Avatar
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    That's good information. Thanks, Terry.

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    Senior Robin Hood Guy Ian Gills's Avatar
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    Looks alright. I also buy products with American in the name.

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    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    Looks alright. I also buy products with American in the name.
    That's nice, too bad they don't manufacture in the USA like Toto does.

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    DIY Junior Member adenwork2's Avatar
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    The ARRA and BAA include many countries other than the USA.

    "designated countries qualify as a part of the recovery package. These countries include: World Trade Organization Government Procurement Agreement countries; Free Trade Agreements countries; Caribbean-Basin countries; or one of several “least developed” countries around the world."

    For example, one Toto I bought that qualified was made in Vietnam.
    Not as American as the title might seem.

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    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    Not as American as the title might seem.
    I sold a Bone ADA drake to a customer last week, tank and bowl made in USA

    All of the TOTO Ultramax, Soiree, Guinevere, Ultramax II toilets I've been selling are made in USA
    The Eco tanks for the Drake have been made in USA

    All of the Gerber I sell is made in China
    American Standard manufactures in Mexico and Brazil, which are fair trade.
    Pegasus, China
    Glacier By, China

    Maybe that's why I like the TOTO one-piece toilets a bit better.
    They make most of them here.

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    Senior Robin Hood Guy Ian Gills's Avatar
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    I agree that people should have the choice to buy American and for some things should even be encouraged to.

    But I draw the line at being forced to buy American products, which Congress tried to do with the stimulus package, ordering recipients to buy American (under the ARRA).

    Some stuff is just not made well here. For example, I would rather walk than own an American car (even a Japanese one built here).

    Stick to ball valves, pumps and (perhaps) toilets. Your brasswear is/was first class too. Just leave the difficult stuff to the Japanese & Germans.

    And regardless there will always be a market for low-cost, low quality products. I would not want to deny my neighbor access to cheap, low quality Chinese products if those are all he wanted.

    I love Government, but it should stay out of what we choose to buy and from where.
    Last edited by Ian Gills; 10-22-2009 at 07:15 PM.

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    DIY Senior Member Runs with bison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adenwork2 View Post
    For example, one Toto I bought that qualified was made in Vietnam.
    Not as American as the title might seem.
    That was probably the bowl (on a Drake for example). The tank on mine is U.S. made, but the bowl is not. I didn't see the bowl on the list, but the tank was there.

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    DIY Senior Member Runs with bison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Gills View Post
    I agree that people should have the choice to buy American and for some things should even be encouraged to.

    But I draw the line at being forced to buy American products, which Congress tried to do with the stimulus package, ordering recipients to buy American (under the ARRA).

    <snip>

    I love Government, but it should stay out of what we choose to buy and from where.
    That's an ironically screwed up perspective. Your angle effectively puts you in bed with the likes of Halliburton who are only too eager to offshore everything at taxpayer expense. Govt. wouldn't be forcing you to buy from the U.S., they instead would not be subsidizing your buying from elsewhere. When govt. is footing the bill, it makes sense to provide the incentive for purchases that stimulate OUR economy, not someone elses. That is the point of something designed as stimulus.

    Now if one was designing a program for something else, say energy/water efficiency then the optimization should be neutral toward source.

    It's not like the Chinese let you bring in your equipment from outside when you set up a plant. Nope, you have to teach them how to make the gear, then they make it for the plant. (And believe, me they were clueless about basic stuff when we started.) China is incredibly protectionist but the western capitalists have sold their souls and given away their process knowledge to them chasing short term bucks.

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    Senior Robin Hood Guy Ian Gills's Avatar
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    But where do you draw the line? Very few things are built entirely in the US nowadays. We are a world that is inter-linked.

    Even Totos. Is that American glaze and American clay? Is it American plastic in the guts? I really doubt it. Yes, it might be put together here but its not 100% American value-added.

    I don't have any problem seeing a little bit of American taxpayers' money go elsewhere. Like to England for instance. That never did anyone any harm.
    Last edited by Ian Gills; 10-23-2009 at 11:56 AM.

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    DIY Junior Member HoracioO's Avatar
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    Buy American doesn't necessarily equate to quality just as buying Chinese manufactured products doesn't mean low quality. The issue is the manufacture's design and QA specs. Apple manufactures everything in China and their products are consistent and high quality. Dell produces in China as well (sometimes in the same factories) but their component supply specs are much lower and so you end up with a cheaper product plus they permit sub-component substitutions so they get drifting in the actual product even on the same manufacturing run!

    The intent of buy American is not so much about quality but the preservation of manufacturing jobs. Laudable yes. Realistic no. Manufactured in US products will need to compete with lower production costs (read labor & environmental laws, etc.) and so will likely end up substituting cheaper components and other short-term tactics to stay in the game. Great Britain did that for ages, with government protection and other methods yet the quality of their products ended up almost as bad as their food!

    The reason we have labor laws, environmental laws and others is to ensure the social costs of a product are appropriately accounted for. We either have to give up those gains or encourage others to share those same goals. If we don't the marketplace will mercilessly crush any attempt to trick it!

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    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    The plant in Morrow Georgia is situated where they have historically had good clay for manufacture.

    About 25% of the toilets I'm selling are made of Georgia clay.
    And the manufacturing process is industry leading.

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    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    A lot of "made in USA" on the boxes.


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    DIY Junior Member retrogameroom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Gills View Post
    Looks alright. I also buy products with American in the name.
    Sorry, but I think it is misleading and downright disgraceful that American Standard (for example) products are not made in the United States. I know of more than one person who bought these products believing that they were made here.

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