Does Toto Drake CST744S come with C744E bowl model ?

**FloydB** · 03-26-2009, 08:56 PM

I would like to ask this forum opinions on a matter related to the bowl model sold with the Toto Drake CST744S (1.6 GPF) toilet.
I bought three Toto Drake CST744S toilets from specialty plumbing store in Ottawa ON. During the purchase I specifically asked for the Toto Drake model CST744S toilet. Also, I mentioned to the sales person the model of tank (ST743S) and bowl(C744S) corresponding to Toto Drake CST744S toilet (I've got the info from the totousa.com website: I could not find a Toto web site about products they sell in Canada ).
However, the store delivered the bowl model C744E (made in Vietnam) and the tank model ST743S (made in Mexico).
When I raised my concerns about the bowl model C744E(which is supposed to be sold as part of Toto Eco Drake CST744E - the 1.28 GPF model- using E-Max technology as opposed to G-Max technology used by CST744S) I was initially told the "E" stands for "elongated", then the sales person told me Toto discontinued the bowl model C744S and replaced it with the model C744E starting February 2009. He also assured me the two bowl models are exactly the same.
Now I wonder if the two bowls models are in reality the same and only the names Toto used for them were different for marketing purposes, or they are 2 different bowls: one (C744S) optimized for 1.6 GPF and the other one (C744E) for 1.28 GPF.
My point is they delivered to me a different toilet bowl model from the one I paid for. My understanding is the CST744S (C744S bowl + ST743S tank ) model proved over the time that is working well and I'm concerned the combination of C744E bowl and ST743S tank may not work as well (or at least is not proved over the time to work well).
Also, I think it would have been fair for the sales person to let me know upfront the Toto Drake CST744S comes with bowl model C744E instead of just reacting when I noticed the difference.
I'm a DIY person but I do not have to much experience with plumbing and I never used/installed a Toto toilet before (I installed/fixed few American Standard toilets during my DIY "career") .
Please let me know if you experienced same issue in the past 2 months buying/installing a Toto Drake CST744S toilet?
Should I trust the sales person story about Toto discontinuing the bowl model C744S ?
Is any of the forum readers/contributors aware about Toto discontinuing the bowl model C744S or did he use/install bowl model C744E in combination with tank model ST743S?
Thanks,
Floyd

**Terry** · 03-26-2009, 10:22 PM

I don't think the S bowls are made anymore.
In the Northwest, they have only been stocking the E bowl for almost a year now.

Everything I see are E bowls.
You do have a choice in tanks.

The E bowl with work with the 1.28 gallon tank and the 1.6 gallon tank.

Instructions for installing a TOTO Drake

**jbeach** · 08-10-2009, 08:43 PM

I ordered the ECO Drake with 1.28 gallons per flush. I received a 744E Bowl, made in Vietname, and a 743S Tank, made in Mexico. Both items have stickers or markings that indicate 1.6 gallons per flush. It doesn't appear that I received the correct tank for the ECO model Drake. If the mail order vendor responds tomorrow, maybe I'll know more.

**Peanut9199** · 08-11-2009, 06:24 AM

No we cannot get C744S bowls (for a long time now) anymore it is the C744E and there is no problems when using the C744E bowl and ST743S tank.

Any thing that is available in the US is available in Canada and are CSA.

**exhausted** · 08-21-2009, 02:56 PM

When I started my search for a toilet a month ago, I did not know that one day like today I would feel overwhelmed, exhausted from so much and continuing changed information. Yesterday, thanks to Terry's forum, I went ahead and ordered a Toto Soiree Toto ms964214cfg, just to received a reply that it was discontinued. The vendor told me to buy Toto ms964214cefg instead.
The question is how does the 1.28 gpf work in compared with 1.6 gpf. What makes 1.28 work as well as 1.6 ? if they indeed produce results equally.
Second, what is the MaP of the Soiree line ? is it up to 900 grams as the Drake? or it doesn't matter.
My sons request that the toilet has the most powerful flushing (Ha!). So, is it important that I go with the ones have MaP of 800 to 900 grams ?
I, on the other hands, like the easy cleaning of the Soiree, since I am the only person do the cleaning in this man cave.

This exhausted mom will appreciate your opinions and ideas. I need to order a toilet soon so that I can move on with my life.

Thanks

**Terry** · 08-21-2009, 03:27 PM

The 1.28 Eco Soiree works fine.
I can't really see any change from the 1.6 on it.

**exhausted** · 08-22-2009, 07:21 AM

Hi Terry,
Thank you for your prompt response. Your short and to the point answer meant that this mom doesn't need to wonder any more ?
Does it mean that both toilet designs use the same technology and the same mechanism and they produce the same results with either 1.28 or 1.6 GPF ? So, Toto said to itself: "Self, let use 1.28 GPF instead. Now we can charge more dollars for the "Eco Soiree" for no good reason. "
Since you didn't address the "MaP" question for the Soiree, does it mean MaP is not a concern either ? How would a toilet be ranked for the "clogging factor" ? and more importantly, how is the Soiree ranked among toilets and based on what?
If my questions bother you, please forgive me. I am known for " leaving no stones unturned". You don't have to respond, though. I am just secretly hope that somebody who has so much free time in his/her life to help me search for the answers.
The truth is, if I go ahead and buy the Soiree without exhausted studies, and sometimes in the future my very expensive Soiree clogged, I'll forever be blamed for my "inadequate, unscientific toilet search". More importantly, I'd have hurt my sons faith on me.

**jadnashua** · 08-22-2009, 10:12 AM

When you flush and the toilet refills, water goes two places: into the bowl, and into the tank. Well, there is also a third place - down the drain. The bowl is like a teakettle where you keep filling it, and if you get too much, it comes out the spout. The terminology in a toilet is the weir.

Essentially, you don't dump the full amount of the water used in a flush from the tank - only a middling percentage of it. The rest is what gets siphoned out of the bowl.

Most fill valves overfilled the bowl, so some always went down the drain after the flush was done. The manufacturers fine tuned the refill so there is little excess that gets dumped unnecessarily, and on some, marginally decreased what gets dumped from the tank.

Toto does their homework...their toilets work. The 1.28g versions can dump more water if you really feel you need to (like most any toilet) if you hold the handle down to empty the tank more. If you regularly find you need to do this, you could swap the flapper and get back to a 1.6g flush. You shouldn't have to, at least with a new Toto.

**exhausted** · 08-24-2009, 07:49 AM

Thank you, jadnashua.

After reading your post the 2nd time, I've got the concept and seen it's senses. In my eyes, you're a true guru because you have the patience to help a toilet-challenged lay person to understand, and it is appreciated greatly. Now, when my sons ask me, I can explain like a pro. Because just like their mother, they will ask, I assure you.
I won't forget to thank you too, Terry, for your respectful report. I know you just don't have the time to go through the details with me.
Gentlemen, I am moving on to the next task: searching kitchen appliances.

Thanks again and best wishes always.

**hank5136** · 10-19-2009, 03:42 PM

I just wanted to add a link to a Product Bulletin that I found related to the C743S/E bowl dlimna. I too ordered a 1.6 G-Max Drake toilet and received the C743E bowl, so I did a little research and found the document in the link that clearly shows the C743S part number was replaced with the C743E part number in 2007. Hope this helps anyone who has the same confusion.

http://www.sotermartin.com/mfgrs/TOT...r%20Notice.pdf