Kathunk from the pressure tank

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Wes

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Hello, this site is a great resource.

We have an 8 year old house with a well, xtroll pressure tank, sediment filter, and a softener system. The switch on the tank is set to 30/50 (actually 31/49 or so - I need to adjust and check the pressure).

We have been in the house for about 4 weeks now. This past weekend I noticed a ka-thunk from the pressure tank when it kicks ON. It seems that the switch kicks on, goes ka thunk, and then continues filling. What could be causing it?

thanks in advance
Wes
 

Speedbump

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Your well x trol bladder is bottoming out. You are hearing the bag in the tank hitting the outlet fitting. Which means there is no more water in the tank to be had. It is empty. Now it's up to the pump to supply the pressure to the house. I'm not sure if you have too much air in the tank making it bottom out before the pump can come on or if the pump comes on but the pressure keeps going down to the point where the tank goes empty. But it's one of the above.


bob...
 

Hube

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If a check valve is located in the immediate area of the tank, it could be starting to "stick". When there is a slight delay of its opening the valve's 'poppet' will slam into the receiver seat, causing this 'kachunk/wham sound.
Replacing it with a good quality brass type check valve will usually solve the problem.
 

Gary Slusser

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It sounds as if you may have a sticking check valve or... a leaking check valve on/at the outlet of a submersible pump and then a check valve at the tank inlet. The two check valve situation may have a leak in the plumbing between them and you're getting water hammer when the water hits the tank check valve as opposed to smply opening it when the water starts to move, which would be the way it would act if there was water against it.

So see if you have a check valve on the tank inlet and tell us if you have a submersible pump.

Gary
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Wes

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Check Pressure?

Bob,

so a possible resolution would be to check the pressure and make sure that it's 2#'s below the "on" setting. Is that something to try?

More info: when we first moved in 6 weeks ago the pressure to the 2nd floor was p-poor. I checked the guage and it was @ 16-29/on off. After doing some reading, I realized that 16-29 was just nuts. So I flushed the tank of sediment (a lot was there), pumped the tank to 28psi, adjusted the switch nuts for 30-50. (it seems to be a 31/48 now). The pressure is fine now except for the new ka-thunk that started this weekend. Before deciding to to go to 30/50 check the xtrol model number to make sure it could handle it.

I'll check the pressure and report back.

thanks!
Wes
 

Wes

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Gary Slusser said:
So see if you have a check valve on the tank inlet and tell us if you have a submersible pump.

Gary
Quality Water Associates

I'll take a look for a valve this evening. Also, how do I know if I have a submersible pump? The pump is in the front yard, underground. I guess that would mean is "submersible"?!

thanks
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Wes

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More info

It looks like there is some sort of valve just before the pressure switch. It has the manufacturers name and just below the name the word "unleaded".


I didn't have time to to a complete pressure check & flush. I simply let a small amount of air out of the pressure tank. I haven't heard the ka-thunking since then. This weekend I'll do a proper flush and adjustment.

Are these the proper steps:
1) switch off pump and tank
2) turn off supply to house
3) drain tank
4) set pressure of tank to 28 lbs (for pressure switch of 30/50)
5) turn supply back on
6) turn pump & tank back on

Is that about right?

thanks
Wes
 

Speedbump

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If you used a tire gauge for the tank and used the system gauge for the water pressure. It's possible the gauges weren't exactly synchronized. So if the tank had a smidgen more air than the turn on pressure was set at, that could be the Ka-plunk. The tank bottoms out the the pump comes on.


bob...
 
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Wes

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Will update...

Bob,
thanks for the info.

I'll reset everything this weekend and post an update.

I used to know a plumber and he said one of his favorite customers were people with wells because he could sell them lots of new parts. Thank goodness for the internet and sites like this and yours.

-wes
 

Speedbump

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Ok Wes,

Use the gauge on the system to check the on pressure instead of a tire gauge, like it said in the FAQ's. That will help get the right pressures.

I can't start badmouthing the plumbers because it will get then all stirred up and next thing you know they'll be bad mouthing the pump and well guys and then the air conditioning guys and pipe fitters will get involved then, well you know.

bob...
 

Wes

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Bad mouthing

I'm not bad mouthing plumbers... I'm bad mouthing unscrupulous people. The internet makes knowledge easily accessible. As we know, there are some people that will take advantage of others who don't.

I'm I do it yourselfer, within limits - if I try these things on my system and they don't work, of course I'll call a professional.

(I see someone reported your post for some reason...)
 

Speedbump

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I knew what you meant, I was just kidding about stirring stuff up. Sometimes we all get into a good old brawl about plumbers, pipe fitters, AC guys, pump guys etc. but it's all in fun. I really don't see much bad mouthing going on any of these forums and that's a good thing.

I'm not sure what you mean by someone reporting my post though.

bob...
 

Wes

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kathunk

Ok, here is an update.

I reset the pressure. The switch is set for 24/44. I set the bladder pressure to between 20 and 22. (20 according to the tank, 22 according to my tire guage, they are off).

Here's what happens.
- water drains until 22psi
- then I hear the click/activation of the switch
- pressure hovers for a second and then begins to move up slowly
- then around 23/24psi...ka thunk...and then sort of a buzzing motor sound from the tank.
- tank continues filling
- as it fills i hear couple of what sound like bubbles running in the pipes
- filling stops at 44.

Notes:
-The set up is a "standard set up" here in the Northeast. X-Trol in the basement, well and pump out in the yard.
-If the water is being used "lightly" for several days, this doesn't seem to happen.
-System is from 1997.

Any ideas on what to check? I could post a picture of the system if that would help!

ka-thunk-fused...
Wes
:confused:
 

Gary Slusser

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It sounds to me as if the check valve in or on the oulet of the pump is sticking.

If you meant 22 lbs on the water pressure gauge, you have to drain the tank to check and adjust the air pressure. No water in the tank, or you don't get enough air at the right pressure and volume. And if it were mine, I'd adjust the air pressure to 29-28 with no water in the tank and set the switch to 30/50.

Gary
Quality Water Associates
 

Wes

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kathunk

Ok, so I guess it might be a good time for me to call a pro since this might go beyond my scope/time.

I've attached two pictures of the tank and switch. Is that the valve just to the of left side?

thanks
Wes
 

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Gary Slusser

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Yes that's a check valve but not the one I mentioned; it is in/on the outlet of the pump. This one can mask a leak between it and the pump. I don't like one at the tank for that reason. Pus now you get to guess whcih one is bad and you only have a 50/50 chance.... lol

And then you may have more in the line from the pump, down the well. Those that sell check valves will tell you that you should have one every 100 feet from the pump up to the pitless or sanitary seal cap. Here we never do that and some of our pumps are 500'+. But then we size the pump to work with a water level all but down to the pump.

Gary
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Wes

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Valve

Thanks Gary. So what is involved in replacing the check valve? What can I expect to be paying? Also, is this something urgen that I need to call in "now" or can I wait a few weeks?

thanks
Wes
 

Speedbump

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What Gary is saying is get rid of the check valve at the tank. This valve holds the water pressure in the tank from going back to the well when the pump shuts off, which can drain lines if there is a leak somewhere. This may explain the air you are hearing. With air in the lines, the pump kicks on, air is compressed against the check valve until the water is almost there then ka thunk the valve opens hard because of the ability of air to move through pipe much faster than water.


bob...
 

Wes

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Check Valve

Is the check valve in question the one at the well head (outdoors)?
 
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