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Thread: 14" Rough-In Toilet Choices

  1. #91
    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    5 1/2" is center to center of the pipe.


    Toto Vespin II CST474CEFG with SS114 Softclose seat.

    This was a 13.5" rough with the 14" Unifit.
    Last edited by Terry; 04-21-2013 at 10:22 PM.

  2. #92
    DIY Junior Member benlinus's Avatar
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    Unifit adapter perform's very well. I have TOTO Carroll-ton in my home installed from last few years. According to its design adapter introduces a potential source of clogs since the adapter is PVC. That's works really fine. Gerber DF-21-304 (Ultra Dual Flush/ Pressure Assist) is really a terrible toilet. Unifit adapter really nice to have

  3. #93
    DIY Junior Member lucky blaze's Avatar
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    hello friends of the troubled toilet! so HAPPY to have found you here.

    i need to REPLACE two "victorian style" toilets (pull chain hanging from a wall-mounted box, someone's idea of "quaint", my idea of plumbing-hell) that are 14" rough-ins.
    i see that TOTO is all the rage here but they tell me they have NO TOILETS that are skirted (which will hide the adapter) AND dual-flush which i really want.
    is there ANYTHING out there that can meet my needs?
    thanks so much for any and all suggestions, advice, poetry and consolation.
    what a GREAT website!

    lori, NOT a victorian in san francisco

  4. #94
    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    They do have the Watersense Aquia dual flush in 10" and 12"
    The Watersense 1.28 Guinevere can be made into a 14" with the 14" Unifit.

    Any 12" rough will work on 14", but will be out from the wall 2" more.

  5. #95
    DIY Senior Member wjcandee's Avatar
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    It's not about skirted "hiding the adapter"; only certain toilets work with the Unifit adapter, and all of those are necessarily skirted. Not all Toto skirted toilets (like the Aquia and Maris, which are both skirted dual-flush toilets) will work with the 14" Unifit. Unskirted toilets use no adapter, and are built at the factory to work with usually a 12" and sometimes a 10" rough-in.

    The following are the Toto toilets that work with a 14" Unifit adapter. All are Watersense 1.28 gallon-per-flush toilets, which may average out to be similar in water consumption to a dual-flush that uses 1.6 on the solids and .9 on the liquids:

    Aimes
    Carlyle II
    Carolina II
    Eco Guinevere
    Eco Lloyd
    Eco Soiree
    Legato
    Pacifica
    Vespin II

    Just google each name to see a picture of it, or try Totousa.com and put the name in the search box on their web site. It isn't the absolutely-easiest thing to navigate, unfortunately.

    As Terry points out, a toilet designed for a 12" rough-in will happily fit on a 14" rough-in. You will just have more space behind the tank than you are probably used to (2" more, to be exact).

    If you really want a dual-flush, Toto makes the best one, called the Aquia.

    They also make a nice looking dual flush called the Maris. You would get the 12" rough-in version of those.

    As long as you would consider putting a 12" rough-in toilet on 14", you also might consider the "Drake II 1G", a version of the Drake II that only uses a single gallon of water for everything. Most reviews I have seen of it have been very positive; it gets the job done with 1 gallon per flush. CST454CUFG (not to be confused with the regular Drake II, CST454CEFG, where the U means ultra-low water consumption and the E means 1.28gpf).

    Hope this helps.
    Last edited by wjcandee; 05-10-2013 at 02:59 PM.

  6. #96
    DIY Junior Member lucky blaze's Avatar
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    thanks SO much, Terry and wjc, for immediate feedback in this product morass!

    let's narrow the playing field: i do NOT want a two-inch gap behind my toilet. SF experiences enough "shaky ground" without adding instability in the bathroom!
    i am committed to using a 14" adapter so i don't have a free-standing toilet (or one that requires jerry-rigging).
    SO, if i am going with TOTO, i'll be getting a 1.28
    and perhaps, arguably, i would NOT be saving a lot of water going with a dual-flush PLUS i would have to step out of the golden aura of T O T O.
    do ANY other products come close or should i just give up and stay with the champion?

    again, thanks for your guidance. deep appreciation.

  7. #97
    DIY Senior Member wjcandee's Avatar
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    Thanks for the kind words.

    So you know, there will always be a gap behind a modern floor-mounted, downward-discharge toilet. And it will always be free-standing. Most toilets today are designed to have a gap of between 3/4" to about 1-1/8" behind the toilet when mounted on a rough-in that is exactly as specified (i.e. the rough-in is really 12", not 11.5", which one finds pretty-often).

    The toilets that are assembled by connecting a tank to a bowl are now called "close-coupled" toilets because the tank sits on and is securely connected to the base. (Of course, some are a single casting -- "one piece" toilets.) "Close coupled" is used to differentiate them from the previous style, which involved a tank that mounted on the wall a couple of inches above the toilet base and was connected to it with a pipe. Kind of like your Victorian toilet but mounted just above instead of way up on the wall. I actually have one of those wall-mount tanks on a toilet off of our laundry room -- with a date stamp in it from 1927.

    Just mentioning this because you won't have to jerry-rig anything if you just put the 12" toilet on the 14" rough-in. And it will be just as stable as if it were put on a rough-in that was exactly 12". However, it will have a gap behind it, which may be an issue or not, depending on how it is facing. For example, in my City apartment, the toilet is a 12" rough-in toilet mounted on a 14" rough-in. So there is a gap behind it of about 2-3/4". However, there is a row of mirrored cabinets above the sink and toilet, that protrude forward, so the extra space really isn't noticeable, and I think the architect thought that if the toilet were slid back, the sitting position actually might seem weird. On the other hand, if the toilet is facing sideways as you enter the room, the larger gap might be more noticeable.

    I think you are on the right path with the Watersense skirted toilet with the 14" Unifit. I just didn't want you to be concerned that there was something structurally-improper about mounting a 12" toilet on a 14" rough. It's done all the time, and doesn't make it less stable.

  8. #98
    Retired Machine Repairman wptski's Avatar
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    I had one of those less than 12" situations but some toilet dimensions would have put it against or through the wall! I went with a 10" rough in just to be safe. I have around 3" space, I think but at least one can easily clean the wall behind it.
    Bill
    Retired Machine Repairman
    Just a DIY'r

  9. #99
    DIY Member Wallijonn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    5 1/2" is center to center of the pipe.


    Toto Vespin II CST474CEFG with SS114 Softclose seat.

    This was a 13.5" rough with the 14" Unifit.
    Exactly how high must the fill valve be to not hit the Vespin II? Spec sheet says 6"

    I doubt I could install it in my master br. since the fill valve is exactly 5" from the floor to the exact center of the knob screw and exactly 5" from CL and a 12" (11+7/8", actual) RI. After looking at all the Toto specs sheets I decided to go with the Kohler K-3811, because it's a one piece elongated and supposedly will fit where a round bowl fits, 28+1/4" from the wall (1/2" wall space, 27+3/4" length). It's CL to the valve is 5+1/8" with the fill valve 5" from the floor, which would seem to be a perfect fit for my needs. I'll be sure to give a review, hoping against hope that it doesn't exhibit the problems you have outline with it's non-linear bowl flush and clogging due to trap pipe right angle outlet.

    My second bathroom, though, has 5" from floor to fill valve centre and a 6" CL, with a 12.75"/13.0" RI (12+3/8" & 12+5/8" RI to the ceramic tile mounlding. Yes, the Briggs toilet is crooked. Wall space 0.75" & 1. I figure I'll have about 1.25" between wall and tank top after I've straightened it.) So it "might" fit. The problem is the valve height from the floor. What's the minimum the Vespin II can accept?

    I'd probably use the 12" RI and hope that the extra space nearest the wall gives me a little more "wiggle" room to position the valve.
    Man, I bet that Vespin II appeals to a lot of us guys. It's absolutely beautiful.

    Quote Originally Posted by wjcandee
    The toilets that are assembled by connecting a tank to a bowl are now called "close-coupled" toilets because the tank sits on and is securely connected to the base. (Of course, some are a single casting -- "one piece" toilets.) "Close coupled" is used to differentiate them from the previous style, which involved a tank that mounted on the wall a couple of inches above the toilet base and was connected to it with a pipe.
    Thanks. I thought maybe it had something to do with the canister flush valve (Flush Valve Tower Assembly, THU396) in the Drake II 1G EL (C454CUFG/ST454E). To me, there was the three piece (water tank up high, down pipe, bowl [Godfather II], the two piece and the one piece.)

    Last question, why is velcro used on some Toto toilets? I mean, really? Why not duct tape? Seems chintzy to me. Toto could cast a top with an indentation for a couple of pennies, I figure.

    [edit] One more last question - re-inforced wax seal with a flange or 100% wax seal without the flange?
    Last edited by Wallijonn; 06-09-2013 at 04:00 PM.

  10. #100
    DIY Senior Member wjcandee's Avatar
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    Shame to have to go with the Kohler just because of the supply location. Maybe you could put a 90 or a Dahl Skirted Toilet Installation Kit on there? http://www.dahlvalve.com/PDF/Skirted..._Brchre_US.pdf

    You want the wax ring without the flange, unless the top of the flange is below the finished floor level, whereupon you would use either an extra-thick one or stack two. If you stack two, you put a no-flange ring on the floor and stack a ring with flange on top of it, then put the toilet down on that. The flange helps hold the top ring in place, but it's not the end of the world if you stack two no-flange ones.

    I don't know about why Velcro. I assume that the designers thought it was a good idea. They have no problem casting complex porcelain, as you say.
    Last edited by wjcandee; 06-09-2013 at 04:20 PM.

  11. #101
    DIY Senior Member Reach4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jadnashua View Post
    With the Unifit, part of that drain path is plastic (the adapter), so you can hear it a little. For me, not a problem. I think the benefits far outweigh the (minor) noise issue some report. It's easier to pull the toilet, too, as the adapter stays in place, and you don't need to reset with a new wax ring (unless you need to remove that, too). This would allow you to quickly and easily remove the toilet to say paint behind it.
    With the Unifit system, what holds the front of the toilet in place? I suspect that a screw gets put into those two access ports on the aft base to hold the rear in place.

  12. #102
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    You use flange bolts in the rear section (which is why that area has four bolts holding it to the floor), and that plus gravity hold the toilet down. Code in most places requires the toilet to be sealed around the bottom, and that helps a lot on a tiled floor that has very little friction between the toilet and the tile. Polyseamseal works well, and is a lot easier to remove if you ever do want to remove the toilet verses say silicon.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  13. #103
    DIY Junior Member arcnsparc's Avatar
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    Hi Terry, your advice on the forums are greatly appreciated.
    I accidentally placed a toilet with a 12" rough in, for what was meant to be a 14" rough in. It's slightly less than 28" (front to back). Is there a 14" rough in toilet you recommend that's a two piece model and round bowl under 30"? My goal is to find that compact toilet for a 14" rough in but in a two piece.

    Thanks!

  14. #104
    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    My goal is to find that compact toilet for a 14" rough in but in a two piece.
    There's not really a market for that.
    The manufacturers figure that if someone is looking to spend a little, they already have the 12" bowls. Yes, they do stick out there a ways.

    There "does" seem to be a market when more money is spent. TOTO is the only one shifting the bowl back toward the wall. So far, the others are only willing to sell a fat tank for a 12" bowl.
    The two piece TOTO Vespin II with a 14" Unifit is what I normally use there. It's not a cheap toilet though.

    Kohler round bowl 30.375" from wall to end of bowl
    American Standard Cadet 3 round bowl, 30.25" from wall to end of bowl
    TOTO Drake round front, 29.5" from wall to end of bowl.
    Vespin II elongated with 14" kit, 28.75" from wall to end of bowl.
    Last edited by Terry; 10-08-2013 at 09:57 AM.

  15. #105
    DIY Junior Member gerggyb's Avatar
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    hi. i have been reading here and elsewhere and am trying to become a quick expert! i have an old house with a 14" rough in. i see clearly that you guys really, really like the toto toilets. here is my situation however, my water supply comes up through the floor at 6.5" left of center. if i understand correctly, that is too close to the toilet to work with the unifit system. if that is correct, what are my other options?!
    here in central iowa, i have found two toilets within driving distance from me. one if the gerber viper (whose depth is 31"). the other is the peerless madison (whose depth is 27.25"). the peerless is a 'true' 14" toilet in that it does not just have the extra wide tank. ascetically, that would be best for me. did i mention the bathroom is pretty darn small?
    so, do i have other options? or to put it another way, are these two toilets really worthless? my current toilet has no name on it, sits 27" away from the wall, and needs plunging several times a week...

    thanks!

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