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Thread: Offset flange Ba$$tard!

  1. #1
    DIY Junior Member alchemist's Avatar
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    Default Offset flange Ba$$tard!

    I just purchased a Toto Drake last week and was looking forward to putting it in this weekend. Measured my roughin on all three toilets in the house and 12" was used. The one that I'm actually replacing had cheated the 12" by just a little (e.g. 1"), and the toilet tank lid on that one actually rubbed up against the wall. All three old toilets in my house were the Gerber WaterSaver and were for 12" rough-in. Imagine my surprise and subsequent cursing when I pulled the toilet today and saw a plumber had used (for new installation back in 1988 when house was built) a damn offset closet flange. What is more, it was one of those oval opening ones. The vent pipe comes right off of the drain line - I can see it. I had always had trouble with this toilet flushing, even after snaking, and now I know why. Hell, I was blaming my youngsters for throwing things (toys, shells, etc.) down the crapper, but its the damn plumber I need to go after.

    Question: Should I pull the flange and go with a good Sioux Chief Full Flush Offset Closet Flange and try to live with this (and install the Drake) or should I put in a straight flange and go with a 10" rough in toilet? I really hope I don't have to do the latter.



    PS - the builder of my home was/is one of biggest cheat in eastern NC. Uses the WORST HVAC guys (I have testified against them in court) ever seen. Used a plumber nicknamed 'Leakin' Larry'. He frequently paid off inspectors in the Greenville area. Anyone want his or his cronies' names, just PM me.
    Last edited by Terry; 12-15-2009 at 05:20 PM.

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    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    If you have access from below, I'd consider redoing the drain to allow 12" with a normal flange. But, a quality offset flange should work. If you go to 10", you limit your choices a lot.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  3. #3
    DIY Junior Member alchemist's Avatar
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    No access from below. This is a second floor toilet, although to be honest, I have a hole cut (from the water that overflowed out of the dang Gerber 'watersaver'). Small hole, and the fore/aft direction I would need to go might be blocked by a joist (they run that way, perpendicular to the 'adjusting' direction of the rough in). Is running a good offset, if there is such a thing, that bad? I really want to keep the Drake 1.6L. The 1.6L 10" rough in Drake is expensive and only at one online shop. I just paid about half what the 10" rough in sells for, for the 12" rough in Drake CST744S.
    Last edited by alchemist; 09-27-2009 at 07:13 PM. Reason: update

  4. #4

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    What about using another toilet that would fit right and be within your spending range? I know with mine, the installation was so wrong, it is going to need replaced and fixed. That is just so much work.

  5. #5
    DIY Senior Member Runs with bison's Avatar
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    Gerbers suck. 1988? Wouldn't bother with it. My 1994's are awful, I converted one to a pre-1994 volume by cutting out the tank insert (it's on the lowest level and didn't flush decently at all until I modified it.) I've got everyone trained so that each toilet only clogs about twice/year per toilet (3 toilets.) Well, that is on the one's I get called in on...my wife fixes her own and the kids manage to clear some on their own, I get the tough ones.

    As to handling the problems with your flanges, I defer to plumbers. At least a good toilet gives you a fighting chance. As to what do to about the flange I would err toward the solution that gets it right once, so that you don't have to mess with it again.

  6. #6
    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
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    Default offset

    The do make "good offset collars", but the tradeoff for being good is that they need a fair amount of vertical room. Your horizontal pipe is probably to close to the finished floor level to use one.

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    DIY Junior Member alchemist's Avatar
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    Just talked to a plumber and one is coming over Wednesday. Basically, the ba$$tard that built my home messed up on a wall measurement and there was a joist in the way, and he used one of those oval offset flanges. From what he said, you have to service the flange from the 1st floor, meaning the kitchen ceiling will be toast. The piece of Sh!t plumber that did the work back in 1988 ought to be strung up and shot. This toilet has NEVER worked right. Since it is almost a given that a new flange is required, I am thinking we might as well put in a straight flange and get a 10" rough in Drake, maybe the CST744SF-10. found one for $370 delivered.

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    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    I haven't priced a Toto Vespin for awhile, but it's available as 10, 12, or 14" by selecting the right UniFit adapter (it comes with the 12" one, which you'll throw away). I have one that works well.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  9. #9
    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    10" Toto Drake toilets.
    They only need 9-1/4" to install.

    CST744EF.10 or CST744SF.10

    Comfort height, elongated bowl with either the 1.28 gallon Watersense Eco Flush
    or the 1.6 gallon G-Max flush.
    http://www.terrylove.com/pdf/cst744ef.10.pdf


    Toto Vespin II CST474CEFG with SS114 Softclose seat.
    This bowl was installed on a 13-1/2" rough-in using the 14" Unifit adapter.
    The water shutoff can be as close as 5-1/2" to the left of center, unless it's higher off the floor, and then it can be even closer to center.
    This shutoff had been replaced with a new 1/4 turn valve with brass nipple through the wall.
    Installation was by James Love of Love Plumbing & Remodel 206-949-5683
    In some of the older Seattle homes, the old toilets had been wall mounted tank toilets.
    Those typically are 14" rough-in and need a flange repair to use standard closet bolt connections at the flange.
    Everything is on the truck for that.
    The Vespin comes with a standard 12" adapter or you can order a 10" or 14" adapter depending on your rough-in distance.
    Last edited by Terry; 04-10-2010 at 05:27 AM.

  10. #10
    DIY Junior Member alchemist's Avatar
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    With the likely need for a new offset closet flange (i have the old oval style - bad design) or a straight closet flange, I will probably go with the straight. Hell, they have to tear up my kitchen ceiling anyway, and one is just as easy to install as the other. The 10" rough in toilets are a little more, BUT, they will likely provide a better flush with the straight flange.

    Agreed?

  11. #11
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    Any toilet would probably work better than the old one, but putting in a proper flange should allow it to work as designed. It will be less likely to catch things up on that offset.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

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