Toilet leak?

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lkrides

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I have what must be a leak associated with the wax seal. First I noticed that the tile next to the toilet would not adhere to the floor. Then I noticed that the wood subfloor under the toilet appears to be growing mold. I once had to use a kit to compensate for a broken flange hole that would not hold a tee bolt. See pics. Please advise on how I should proceed.

Thanks

Lee
 

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Jadnashua

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If the wood's all spongy, then you probably should tear things out, replace the compromised subflooring, then redo things.

If the floor is just wet, pull the toilet, then reset with a good wax seal. On the off chance the toilet has a crack or other problem, you'll need a new toilet.
 
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Seal is leaking. Looks very much like the one I recently pulled.

Pull the toilet, temporarily plug the closet flange. Let the flooring dry a day or two before determining if it needs replacement. Make sure the flange is flush or a little above the tile level--add a spacer if needed otherwise you might find yourself doing this periodically. Fix anything that is obviously FUBAR (won't hold screws/bolts.) Then put it back together with an approriate wax seal.
 

lkrides

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Thanks Both.

Someone on this board suggested that using the cone/funnel that comes with the wax seal is a bad idea.

Also, should I use a jumbo wax seal?
 

hj

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seal

The first thing we do NOT know is how you made the flange repair. THAT could be causing the leak. You use whichever wax ring is appropriate, as long as it does NOT have the plastic funnel.
 

lkrides

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Thanks for your reply. I don't even know how I made the flange repair. It was a long time ago. I just installed what the Lowes guy gave me when I told him one side would no longer hold a bolt. I also used the funnel thing and I probably installed a jumbo wax ring (thinking more is better). Can you recommend anything for flange repair?
 

Jadnashua

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Impossible to say how to repair without seeing what's wrong in the first place. There are repair rings that can work, but it depends on what's broken and how bad. Post a picture, then you'll get a better idea.
 
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Impossible to say how to repair without seeing what's wrong in the first place. There are repair rings that can work, but it depends on what's broken and how bad. Post a picture, then you'll get a better idea.

Agreed. Pull the toilet, take the photo of the flange arrangement you have, then the plumbers here (not me, I'm DIY'er) can recommend a path forward.

My point is to let things dry before determining if subflooring must be replaced or is serviceable. It won't be worth much wet. If you get it repaired properly it won't be wet again. I would lean toward using the maximum number of possible fastening points with a weakened/degraded subflloor (even dry it will have been weakened.) If you can get a good bite on screws and such then you shouldn't need to replace it. If the screws strip then your job is a lot tougher and the plumbers will be invaluable in proposing solutions.
 

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What you might need to do is to rent a really big dehumidifier and an air-scrubber to help the wet subflooring. This is what our insurance company did when we had pretty much the same problem, and it worked like a charm. They ran for about a week straight.
 
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That 90 degree bend under the floor looks like a "vent bend", which is not appropriate for waste or soil application. You might consider changing it to out to a "sanitary bend", which has a larger bend radius.

Good catch. I just checked mine and it has the longer curvature of the sanitary bend.

I noticed something else about the image: it looks like the horizontal line drains upward several degrees. That can't be good. Perhaps the problem is that the stack it connects to has a fitting located too high...so they used the short radius bend to keep it from having an even greater slope.
 

lkrides

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Hi all, I have pulled the toilet. The flange is solid. The flooring is solid (despite appearances). I'll have to shim a bit to keep the toilet from rocking. I'm ready to install a new toilet. But.......... My wax ring is the type with the plastic horn. Is it acceptable to remove the plastic horn and use the remaining wax? Or do I have to go out in search of a hornless wax ring?
 

Jadnashua

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If you have a 4" flange, the horn will probably fit into it without distorting, so you could use it. The problem comes when the flange is high, or the opening is small, or you get it off-center, which can either squeeze all of the wax out, and you have a path along the plastic to leak, or it doesn't fit in the pipe well, and can actually close up. Other than that, it can, and does work. Plumbers put the wax ring on the flange first, then set the toilet on it, which is opposite of what the instructions usually say. This way, it is centered on the flange, so if it will fit, you'd know if right off.
 

Redwood

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Those black plastic funnels or, horns have caused more problems than they ever cured.
 

Gary Swart

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Wax rings are really cheap, so don't worry about tossing that funnel thing. And no, more is not necessarily better in wax rings. If your flange is installed properly on top of the finished floor, a standard thickness ring is all you should use. Only if the flange has been recessed as frequently happens when new flooring has been installed over old would a thicker ring be needed. When setting the toilet, use just your body weight to work the toilet horn into the wax until the toilet's skirt is in contact with the floor all the way around. Then tighten the nuts on the flange bolts to hold the toilet in place. In other words, do not use the bolts to pull the toilet into the wax.
 

shadysprings

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Back to the OP's question. What causes this slow leak? If the wax seal is broke, doesn't only leak when you flush? Last year, I had a toilet that was also leaking. Didn't flush it for 1 month to test it and it was still slow leaking the whole time? Is there somewhere else the leak could be coming from?
 

Jadnashua

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A toilet could have an internal defect, then it could leak from nearly anywhere. Could be a seal leak between the tank and the bowl, or from the bolts holding the tank on (assuming it is a two-piece), from the fill valve, or supply, and maybe other places as well (like over the top if the overflow was not installed properly).

The issue with the wax with a funnel is two-fold: on some 3" flanges, the OD of the funnel is too big, and when pushed into the drain, it collapses; or, you set the thing off-center, and partially compress the horn. If the flange is sitting too high, it is also possible to squeeze all of the wax out, and plastic against the porcelain toilet doesn't always seal well, either. So, for many, they create more possible problems than they solve, so it is prudent to avoid them.
 
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