Plumbing Leak?

We've been having a heck of a time trying to locate a water leak that we've been dealing with for a while now. We originally thought that the water we started to see on the ceiling of our kitchen was related to the plumbing from the master bath since it's right on top.

We took down the sheetrock and of course saw nothing. We left it open for 2weeks and still no signs of where the water may be coming from. The visible pipes for the shower and tub seemed fine.

Before we sealed it back up I got my hand up inside one of the holes in the sub floor and took a few shots to see if it was the tub's upper plumbing that we couldn't see. Below is a link to the picture.

Our contractors put up a vapor barrier up against the sub-floor before putting the ceiling back. The thought was that it would buy us some time to save some money before we started ripping out the bathroom and replace the shower and bath.

Since we still aren't sure if it's the plumbing, I thought I'd share the photo for input from experienced plumbers. Is it normal for the pipes to rust like this and for the "green stuff" to run which I understand is the stuff used to meld copper together?

Thanks in advance for your input.

Leak

I don't think that you should have closed that up with a vapor barrier. If it continues to leak you are going to have a pool of water on the ceiling until it gets too heavy and the ceiling caves in.

From your picture I think one of the pipes are leaking, the one with the green corrosion that seems to be comming down the pipe, they should only be green near the fitting where the plumber didn't wipe off the flux.

When you were checking ffor leaks did you run the water?, if not that could be the reason that you couldn't find anything.

The soldering looks a bit amateurish. And that twisted copper tube is a likely place for a leak. You can see that the water's been running down the pipe. I would never cover that back in without repairing it, and that might entail replacing the tub valve as well.

The twisted lines like those on the old Delta Roman tub fixture I tore out a few months ago. I don't recall any corrosion in it though, and it wasn't leaking. I just didn't care for the look or feel of the Delta's in the master bath (it was the old gold chrome.) I put in an access panel and had shut off valves installed as well.

It does look like a leaker to me.

Have you also made sure there is not a toilet wax ring leak? If you have the elbow of the closet flange exposed it will be fairly easy to detect just by flushing the toilet a few times. You should get a drip or two.

Another possibility: are there any small uninsulated HVAC duct runs in the space? I had a nasty condensation problem with a 4" duct run to the master bath a few months ago. It wasn't a problem the first summer since I had that register nearly closed and the AC was not working as well. This summer I opened the register after I did some work on the AC and various duct runs plus better balanced the system. Within a few days I noticed a lot of water in a carpeted basement closet adjacent to the final turn of the duct. The articulated elbows leak cold air everywhere and the cold AC air is enough to cause condensation in our summer climate--especially with inaccessible air infiltration points into the space. The duct surface was dripping. The solution was straightforward: I bought some insulated duct and replaced the old "tin-man" run.

leak

If YOU could not find the leak, why didn't you call a plumber? It was irresponsible to repair the ceiling without knowing EXACTLY where the leak was coming from. And using a vapor barrier, just ensured that any leak would just accumulate until it became a major problem, unless it was so small that it evaporated between usages. Either way you cured the symptom but still have the disease. Normally the corrugated line does not tarnish, but we do not know the external conditions which could have caused it.

hj said:

If YOU could not find the leak, why didn't you call a plumber? It was irresponsible to repair the ceiling without knowing EXACTLY where the leak was coming from. And using a vapor barrier, just ensured that any leak would just accumulate until it became a major problem, unless it was so small that it evaporated between usages. Either way you cured the symptom but still have the disease. Normally the corrugated line does not tarnish, but we do not know the external conditions which could have caused it.

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We actually had 3 plumbers out PLUS 2 contractors PLUS a bath/shower expert. Not a thing was found. So, we did what we could to try to find the problem from underneath. We knew it was a temp fix when we made the decision to seal it back up.

While we don't have a definative answer at the moment, we potentially found the source and it may actually have nothing to do with the plumbing. Either way, the shower will be taken out at some point so that we can get to the tub plumbing and replace what's there a feel at peace.

shacko said:

When you were checking ffor leaks did you run the water?, if not that could be the reason that you couldn't find anything.

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Did this too. I even took a shower and ran the bath while our contractors were searching for the leak. As mentioned, we may have found the source and if not, at some point we will replace the plumbing for the tub since it doesn't look right. For now, we aren't using the tub just in case.

foxhome01 said:

We actually had 3 plumbers out PLUS 2 contractors PLUS a bath/shower expert.

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Yep, contrary to HJ's opinion having an expert come out often does not cure the problem. It does tend to spend a lot more money though...