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Thread: What type of pipe??????

  1. #16
    Plumbing Designer FloridaOrange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nhmaster View Post
    Do I really have to post the related code and charts? You can not use sch 40 PVC for water supply or distribution piping.
    My codes and charts say you can use Sch. 40 PVC for supply piping. As far as I know 2009 IPC says the same thing.
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  2. #17
    DIY Senior Member Bob999's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nhmaster View Post
    Do I really have to post the related code and charts? You can not use sch 40 PVC for water supply or distribution piping.
    Please post the relevant code. The code I can find says sch 40 PVC is approved for supply piping.

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    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nhmaster View Post
    Do I really have to post the related code and charts? You can not use sch 40 PVC for water supply or distribution piping.
    I'd say you do have to post it. Maybe it's not used for either in Maine but all across this country it is used for water supply. In frost free areas across the south you can see it coming out of the ground at well pressure tanks out in the yard and along side the house/garage for city or well water supply and in cellars to pressure tanks and into garages where there is no cellar to water treatment equipment.
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  4. #19
    Plumber Cass's Avatar
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    Water being supplied by a county or city or Water Supply Company are under different rules than home owners.


    Around here from time to time I see meter pits pig tailed with PVC...but from that point on and into the house we are not allowed to use PVC.

  5. #20
    Master Plumber nhmaster's Avatar
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    both the IPC and Upc code do not allow PVC within a structure.

    IPC Table 605.4 and 605.5 neither lists PVC as an acceptable material.

    Your county, city or state may have adopted ammendments to such.

    That you see it all the time does not make it to code. I see water treatment equipment drained into unvented traps all the time. In fact, I see all kinds of code voilations all the time. Just one of those things those of us with licenses notice.

  6. #21
    Plumbing Designer FloridaOrange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nhmaster View Post
    both the IPC and Upc code do not allow PVC within a structure.

    IPC Table 605.4 and 605.5 neither lists PVC as an acceptable material.
    Does IPC allow PVC for supply pipe (605.3 in my book)?
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  7. #22
    Master Plumber nhmaster's Avatar
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    Yes, but only for service pipe. Water service pipe must terminate at or before the main water shutoff valve, located where the water service pipe enters the structure. In this case, since the tank and equipment are within the garage and the garage is defined as a structure, you can not use PVC.

  8. #23
    Plumbing Designer FloridaOrange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nhmaster View Post
    Yes, but only for service pipe. Water service pipe must terminate at or before the main water shutoff valve, located where the water service pipe enters the structure. In this case, since the tank and equipment are within the garage and the garage is defined as a structure, you can not use PVC.
    Gotcha. Thanks for the response and clarification.
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  9. #24
    DIY Senior Member Bob999's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nhmaster View Post
    Yes, but only for service pipe. Water service pipe must terminate at or before the main water shutoff valve, located where the water service pipe enters the structure. In this case, since the tank and equipment are within the garage and the garage is defined as a structure, you can not use PVC.
    I don't profess to be an expert but simply reading the information you wrote above--you wrote "Water service pipe must terminate at or before the main water shutoff valve". As I understand that it says that PVC may be used up to be "main water shutoff valve". So it appears to me, assuming that the quoted statement is correct, that the installer must know where the "main water shutoff valve" is located to make a determination how far PVC may be used.

    In the posters case he said the garage was a separate structure from the residence. In your first sentence you refer to "the structure". In your second sentence you refer to "a structure" It seems to me these two terms may have different meanings in the posters case. If the residence is the structure being served by the water system the code would seem to allow the use of PVC up to the main shut off valve in the residence.

    In any event it would be prudent to consult with the local code office/inspector to determine the local interpretation of the code prior to doing the install.

  10. #25
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    And reading license or not, I read what is being quoted now as differing greatly from what I read initially, which was maybe an old guy brain fart but here's a copy (emphasis mine):

    You can not use sch 40 PVC for water supply or distribution piping.
    Last edited by Gary Slusser; 09-10-2009 at 11:26 PM.
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  11. #26
    Master Plumber nhmaster's Avatar
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    Bob, let me clarify the post a bit. some might think that you could say run the PVC across the basement and then put a valve on and go from there. But another code says that there must be a full port, full open shutoff valve located as close to the entry point and before the water meter. If the OP is really concerned though, the smart thing would be to make a phone call to the building dept and ask the inspector what he will and will not accept. You would hate to install everything only to have to tear it out and start over. Ultimately it comes down to the inspectors discretion.

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    DIY Senior Member Bob999's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nhmaster View Post
    Bob, let me clarify the post a bit. some might think that you could say run the PVC across the basement and then put a valve on and go from there. But another code says that there must be a full port, full open shutoff valve located as close to the entry point and before the water meter. If the OP is really concerned though, the smart thing would be to make a phone call to the building dept and ask the inspector what he will and will not accept. You would hate to install everything only to have to tear it out and start over. Ultimately it comes down to the inspectors discretion.
    Thanks for the clarification. I fully agree with your point about asking--as you can see from my previous posts.

    The original poster has a well. Perhaps this makes a difference--for example, there is no water meter with a well. Also, in the posters case, he made no mention of water usage within the garage that was a separate structure from the residence getting the water service and that would suggest that the actual point of entry into the house is downstream of all the plumbing he was asking about. Perhaps the piping he was asking about would appropriately be considered part of the water service rather than part of the distribution system.

    Do the model codes specifically address such issues--beyond what you posted about prior to the water meter and "close" to the entry point--or is it really just up to the local authorities to deal with such details?

  13. #28
    Master Plumber nhmaster's Avatar
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    You can actually pipe PVC from the well to the structure. Note I said structure. Yes, things get a little gray here and depend a lot on the inspectors interpretation. I/E, would a well house be a structure? So though well systems are different the interpretation of the code should not be.

  14. #29
    DIY Senior Member Bob999's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nhmaster View Post
    You can actually pipe PVC from the well to the structure. Note I said structure. Yes, things get a little gray here and depend a lot on the inspectors interpretation. I/E, would a well house be a structure? So though well systems are different the interpretation of the code should not be.
    My understanding is that the codes differentiate between supply (providing water to the served structure) and distribution systems (distributing the water within the served structure). PVC is allowed in supply systems. It is not allowed in distribution systems. I THINK there is agreement up to this point.

    Seems to me there is no doubt that a well house is "a structure". However it is not clear to me that it is "the structure" that is apparently referred to in the codes. (This is why I pointed out earlier that in one sentence you referred to "the structure" and in another sentence you referred to "a structure".)

    The question becomes what is the line of demarcation between the supply system and the distribution system. It seems to me--but as I have previously stated I am not an expert, and I don't have access to the codes--that a reasonable argument can be made that a pressure tank in a private well system is part of the supply system. The rationale being that creating/maintaining pressure is part of the supply system. Similarly a chlorination or UV system and an acid neutralizing filter in a well system would seem to be part of the supply system and not the distribution system.

    Do the codes speak specifically to the above examples--or is it up to local codes or inspector discretion? I ask because it seems to me that such distinctions are important in this forum which is specifically labeled "Pumps and Wells Forum".

  15. #30
    Master Plumber nhmaster's Avatar
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    Unfortunalty no, there is no direct answer. If I was an inspector I would allow pvc within a well house, probably within a detached garage also. But you just never know without asking.

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