(206) 949-5683, Top Rated Plumber, Seattle
Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 31 to 43 of 43

Thread: What type of pipe??????

  1. #31
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Wherever I park the motorhome.
    Posts
    6,790

    Default

    Us Rednecks, as if we are going to have an inspection, we believe this is one of those things the Urban Pukes are talking about when they say it's best to ask for forgiveness than asking for permission.

    And inspectors, they get scared when having to leave the safety of the city limits to go out in the country more than a few miles... so I'm not sure one would show up if invited. I think it has something to do with all that chlorine in their city water, but I could be wrong.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  2. #32
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Wherever I park the motorhome.
    Posts
    6,790

    Default

    I actually live this: Wake Up America. It's PAST Time to Fight Back!



    BTW, with no license I knew that sch 40 PVC is approved by all codes for cold potable water use. It is NSF Standard 61 and it is marked as such every 18" to 24". Now IMO, anyone WITH A LICENSE should also now that.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  3. #33
    Master Plumber nhmaster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    S. Maine
    Posts
    2,039

    Default

    Why yes, indeed I do know it carries NSF cert. along with ASTM cert. Both certifications, certify that the pipe is manufactured to the standards supplied by the manufacturer. Neither NSF nor ASTM actually set those standards, they are set by the manufacturer and the testing agencies make sure that the products meet such standards. Continuing on, The IPC and the UPC and every other plumbing code I have on in my vast library all allow PVC sch 40 pipe and fittings to be used for potable water supply piping that is not within the structure served. In other words it can be used underground. It can be used to say hang a water pump on in a well, and even run from the well to the structure. It can be used outside for sprinkler pipe. It can be used where approved for fire suppression systems (with certain modifications) It must terminate at the main shut off valve within the structure served. From that point on, PVC can no longer be used. Now if that's confusing to anyone then by all means, feel free to purchase a copy of your code book and give it a read, or give your plumbers board a call and ask for their interpretation but as I make a good deal of my living teaching code to not only apprentices but also plumbers that need to get re-certified every year, your inquiries will no doubt give me the chance to once again say I told you so For those of you who are not familiar with codes and licensing I realize that the code can be confusing and at times make no sense at all. All I can say is that it is what it is and we all deal with it every day.

    Not withstanding Mr. Slussers post above, I can assure you that if you plumb your homes water distribution with PVC it will not pass inspection, so please consult with your local inspector before beginning any plumbing project.
    Last edited by nhmaster; 09-12-2009 at 06:43 PM.

  4. #34
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Wherever I park the motorhome.
    Posts
    6,790

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nhmaster View Post
    Why yes, indeed I do know it carries NSF cert. along with ASTM cert. Both certifications, certify that the pipe is manufactured to the standards supplied by the manufacturer. Neither NSF nor ASTM actually set those standards, they are set by the manufacturer and the testing agencies make sure that the products meet such standards.
    A quick search found this and a quick read seems to disagree with your understanding, or statement. There is not one word about manufactures setting the standard or any other standards. The government does that and CERTIFIES that the manufactures' products comply; (from the nsf.org web site).

    Under Standard 61, products are exposed to a special extractant water for three weeks. Because the EPA establishes safe levels for many contaminants, including lead, the analysis must ensure that the concentration found in the extractant water is below regulated levels.
    Standard 61 covers everything from the equipment used to treat and store water at a water treatment plant to the distribution pipe, valves and devices in a municipal distribution system, and all the plumbing products in buildings.

    For more information about ANSI/NSF Standard 61 and the lead free requirements of the Safe Drinking Water Act, call Peter Greiner at (800) NSF-MARK. He can also be reached by fax at (734) 769-0109 or by email at greinerp@nsf.org.

    Quote Originally Posted by nhmaster View Post
    Continuing on, The IPC and the UPC and every other plumbing code I have on in my vast library all allow PVC sch 40 pipe and fittings to be used for potable water supply piping that is not within the structure served. In other words it can be used underground.
    It can also be used above ground, at least to the shut off valve you mention.

    Quote Originally Posted by nhmaster View Post
    Not withstanding Mr. Slussers post above, I can assure you that if you plumb your homes water distribution with PVC it will not pass inspection, so please consult with your local inspector before beginning any plumbing project.
    I certainly did not, nor did anyone else mention plumbing their house with PVC.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  5. #35
    Plumber Cass's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    5,984

    Default

    Well...the Max. service temp for PVC is 140 F

    The Max. service temp for CPVC is 200 F

    I will venture a guess that this is why, or at least 1 of the reasons PVC is not allowed except for service to the building...

  6. #36
    Master Plumber nhmaster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    S. Maine
    Posts
    2,039

    Default

    I try not to get all wound up in symantics. The Op wanted to know what he could use to pipe his system. I am pretty sure that the best advice given to him was to check with his local inspector. If you want to continue to argue the point then by all means go right ahead. If you feel the need to make a career out of picking apart every word in every post than by all means, knock yourself out. I am sure that sooner or later you wll manage to accomplish your goal.

  7. #37
    Master Plumber nhmaster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    S. Maine
    Posts
    2,039

    Default

    Cass; Hot water & PVC is one issue as is exposure to heat sources and UV which tend to make the pipe brittle. Besides that issue though there is always the problem of transitioning to sizes and materials commonly used at fixtures and such.

  8. #38
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Wherever I park the motorhome.
    Posts
    6,790

    Default

    I've not heard of a max temp for PVC. IIRC it is rated 420 psi @ 73f, and there is a simple formula to determine the decrease in the pressure rating per (IIRC) degree F.

    All 6 national codes, and the manufacturers say "for cold water only".

    As to why it is not allowed inside a house, I don't know how you are going to get UV inside a building in such strength to effect a PVC water line but, IMO and it's just a guess, PVC is not allowed for political reasons and the potential to cross connect it with the hot water side and, to transition to another type of plastic material, you have to use a female (that is frowned on).

    Here is more on the NSF and plumbing codes (I've learned of a 6th National code!!), and especially NSF Standard 61. ALL plumbing codes call for verification (Certification) of all materials used for potable water; the manufactures must meet the standard, they do not set the standard as claimed. At the link is more information about all codes and teh standards they require but I've posted a short excerpt from the link; emphasis is mine.

    http://www.nsf.org/business/newsroom.../ansi_nsf.html

    ANSI/NSF Standards Referenced in Codes

    Over time, many plumbing products have received regulatory attention, based on potential risk to public health, safety and the environment. Regulations and model codes have been developed that require independent, third-party verification that the product complies with the minimum specifications at the point of production and in the marketplace. This chart summarizes U.S. plumbing codes and the ANSI/NSF Standards they reference. For more information, call Paul Shepard at (602) 562-5061 or John Gronewold at (219) 295-9914.
    Last edited by Gary Slusser; 09-14-2009 at 07:55 AM.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  9. #39
    Plumber Cass's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    5,984

    Default

    Well I am glad this discussion is finished now...

  10. #40
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Wherever I park the motorhome.
    Posts
    6,790

    Default

    Personally I think it was very informative with a lot of pertinent info; I know I learned some things.

    One last thing and I'm done, where can I learn more about the 140F rating on sch PVC that you mentioned?
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  11. #41
    Plumber Cass's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    5,984

    Default

    I got the info here...

    http://www.harvel.com/index.asp

  12. #42
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Wherever I park the motorhome.
    Posts
    6,790

    Default

    Now I've learned something else.

    Thanks.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  13. #43
    Homeowner Thatguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    MD
    Posts
    1,460

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by derousseau View Post
    a 500 gal tank for the water to my house.
    Typ. water usage = 100 gals/person/day. How many of you are there?

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •