38 year old well Never serviced

House built 1971. I bought in 1983. Michigan year around lake front home. Well on lake side 53' deep Red Jacket pump. Level to house within 25'. Unless it had service before I bought the house the pump has never been out. I have replaced the control box 1 time and am on the second tank. Original galvanized now a weltrol type. Took off outside cap with no trouble. 6 weeks ago pump was cycling every 5 minutes.Shut off valve to house.I concluded it to the well drop pipe casing or checkvalve. While house valve was closed and pump was refilling the tank at shut off it would hammer a couple bumps.This seemed to possibly rattle the check valve because it then started to cycles every 40-60 minutes. It has recently started cycling every 20 minutes. I was going to add a check valve where it comes in the house but after reading the thread on that it doesnt sound wise. To get a truck to my well Id have to take out a tree and have serious lawn work done. One guy said he'd use a car jack and block it up and try to pull it that way. Another said he had a Pull a Pump.Is one better than the other? If thats sucessful and all we needed to do was replace the check valve would you recommend everything be replaced? One guy said just do the check valve another said replace it all except the casing screen and pitless adapter but maybe the o ring on it. If that failed and a truck was necessary should I just bite the bullet and do it all right now considering its age?. FWIW I just replaced my A.O.Smith hot water tank after 37 years too if thats any indication on what type of water I have. I also was cnsidering the VFD pump but now Ive read about the CSV Im likely to go for that. Another question Red Jacket or Grundfus I like the 3 wire idea because of the location of the control Thanks Jon

You can bet a new pump won’t be made to last as long as that one. You will know more when you can see the pump. It may look like a big rust ball. The wire will probably be rotten looking. If the pump looks good and the labor doesn’t cost much, I might replace the check valve and wire, and see how much longer the pump would last. If it looks as bad as I think it will, or the labor is expensive, you just as well replace everything.

A new Red Jacket will have plastic impellers and one of the Centra-pro type motors. These motors haven’t been around long enough to give you any track record. The jury is still out.

A Grundfos will have Stainless Steel impellers and a Grundfos motor. The SS impellers are now very thin, so not much difference from the plastic. I have some Grundfos motors that are still working that are over 25 years old. I know they have made a few changes on these motors lately but, I still think they will be good motors. So personally I prefer Grundfos to Red Jacket.

The car jack and blocks is a tough gig. Don’t want to take a chance on dropping anything. The Pull-a-pump works good and requires much less room than a truck. However, one should always leave room for a service truck. Even if it is 38 years, you are going to need service some time. If you have to do any work on the well itself, you will need to be able to get a truck in there.

I am very biased towards the Cycle Stop Valve over the Variable Speed Pumps. It is not just because I sell the CSV but, I started with Variable Speed Drives more than 20 years ago, and understand them very well. The variable speed pumps and controllers don’t last any longer and are no more reliable than they were 20 years ago, just a little cheaper and easier to program. All the pump and motor companies are now heavily pushing, promoting, and advertising variable speed pumps. Just think about it. Would pump companies highly promote something that would make pumps last longer and save you money? I think not! It is a well kept secret but, "Planned obsolescence" is the number 1 priority in pump manufacturing considerations these days. Buy what the pump and motor companies are pushing heavily, and you are buying something that was designed to fail, just barely past the warranty date. There is absolutely no energy savings with a variable speed. Being "green" is just bait to lure you into perpetual and expensive equipment replacements.

The CSV was designed to deliver constant pressure and replace the variable speed pumps that we were having so much trouble with. The side effect is that the CSV makes pumps, motors, pressure tanks, switches, check valves and every thing else last longer. This is the number 1 reason why pump companies do not promote, and often try to discredit the Cycle Stop Valve anyway they can.

The well or pump is only 53' deep. Almost any 2-3 guys that can walk to the well should be able pull the pump even if it is on galvanized pipe. Especially since we assume the check valve is leaking which will allow the water in the pipe to leak out as the pump comes up and reduce the weight.

A Pull-A-Pump (I had one for years) would have it out in no time, they pull at 50'/minute but, if galvanized pipe, you have to stop to unscrew the 2-3 sections of pipe. It may not be galvanized, it could be one piece of PE (polyethylene) pipe; and one guy can pull it.

I would replace the pump and probably the cable, and the drop pipe if it's galvanized; I'd use 160 psi rated PE.

The leak may not be the check valve, it could be a hole in a fitting or the pipe.

Ive concluded the check valve in the well is leaking so for the sake of ecnopmics I went ahead and bought and installed a check valve and CSV1W in the house with the pressure pre set @ 60 psi.I have the Pressure switch set at 46/66.While observing the pressure gauge while the pump is on ,the pressure rises fairly quick until it hits 58psi and then the CSV quiets down and then the buildup for the rest 8 psi takes several minutes. Is this because this is when it only is pumping 1gph before the pump shuts off? If so should I raise the pressure swirch setting. I havnt added air to the tank yet it is still set at 28psi. Also when the water is running in the house the pressure steadys out around 50psi or lower if more than 1 faucet is on. Is this because of the limits of the very old system or because I havnt raised the tank pressure. The instructions state 10-15 psi below cut-on is that correct.The previous way said set it 2 lbs below the cut-on Thanks Jon

You need to pull the pipe and replace the foot valve in the well.

how would the foot valve cause it to lose pressure if the check valve were working properly?

Sorry, check valve, the one on the pump.

JON said:

Ive concluded the check valve in the well is leaking so for the sake of ecnopmics I went ahead and bought and installed a check valve and CSV1W in the house with the pressure pre set @ 60 psi.I have the Pressure switch set at 46/66.While observing the pressure gauge while the pump is on ,the pressure rises fairly quick until it hits 58psi and then the CSV quiets down and then the buildup for the rest 8 psi takes several minutes. Is this because this is when it only is pumping 1gph before the pump shuts off?
That should be 1 GPM but, yes.

If so should I raise the pressure switch setting.
No.

I havnt added air to the tank yet it is still set at 28psi.
Needs to be about 40 PSI.

Also when the water is running in the house the pressure steadys out around 50psi or lower if more than 1 faucet is on. Is this because of the limits of the very old system or because I havnt raised the tank pressure.
Probably because that is all the pump can produce but, you could have a leak in the drop pipe instead of a bad check valve, and some of your water is not getting to the top of the well.

The instructions state 10-15 psi below cut-on is that correct.The previous way said set it 2 lbs below the cut-on Thanks Jon

Click to expand...

I still think you may have a leak in the drop pipe instead of a bad check.

Update Pulled pump

You guys are great. Valveman do you work for CSV? I went away for a few days and returned to a pump that was constantly running and only producing 40psi. Because of the limited access and the assumption the pump and casing at 38 yrs may be in bad shape I bit the bullet and had a new well installed. I figured once done that will be it. New well installed now time to abandon the old. The well guys attatched the pipe and guess what..it pulled right out.The pump looks like new except what was on the pump wiped off with a rag.( anyone need a 38 yr old pump) Like New.. Valveman you were right the drop pipe had a 2 holes. Hind sight is always 20/20 .I asked for a 3/4 grundfos but they had to order it so they put in a 1/2 hp loaner. I changed my order a 1hp 16 gpm 16s10-10 after finding out the well was producing 40gpm and I want higher pressure in the second story shower. The water table is 3 ft down, new well 54ft, 60 ft flat run to the house and about 25ft to the top shower.What do you think the pressure will be? After thats installed I will get to the business of tweaking in the CSV . Thanks so much Gary do you rebuild Kenitico softener heads?

Jon, no I don't, only Kinetico dealers can get parts. And you may find they want an awful lot of money (like $1200) to rebuild it for you. If so, then you would be better off with a new softener with a Clack WS-1 control valve bought online and installed by you or hiring a plumber to do it.

Man a new well because of a leak in the drop pipe... BTW, you got some bad advice from nhmaster because a leaking check valve could not have caused the problem you had.

That 16S10-10 should be able to produce as much pressure as you want. We just need to turn up the CSV and pressure switch to get the pressure you need. Yes I work for CSV. Do you know what brand that 38 year old pump is. I may want it for a museum piece.

Valveman Its a

Red Jacket. Well installer said its not 38 yrs old .I do know it wasnt installed after 1983 when I moved here.House built 1971-72 Is there a code date on the label ? I looked at the Red Jacket web site with no luck.Valveman I will be in touch when Im ready to tweek it Jon