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Thread: American Standard Cadet 3

  1. #1
    Master Plumber Dunbar Plumbing's Avatar
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    Default American Standard Cadet 3

    Here's an unlikely "shock" for those of you who have just bought this toilet:


    The flapper inside that tank is 1 piece, you CANNOT remove the rubber disk part from the hard shell of the flapper.

    There is a ridged edge that you will not get back inside that groove properly that will keep you from

    1. turning it upside down like the AS4 design allows


    That flapper is $13 plus tax, possibly more.


    You cannot buy just the rubber, at least in my area.

    I installed one of these toilets, actually quite a few and these people are going to freak because the chlorine is blistering the surface that mates to the flush valve seat. This will prevent a solid leak-proof seal and it has you spending money, instantly.

    The one I'm dealing with isn't 2 years old, and the water quality in my area is significantly worse as of recent.

    2 years for a $13 flapper is nonsense...but then again, it's big box store all the way for many.


    I'm getting paid to work on this toilet, but I'm seeing problems with these seals not holding up any "decent" amount of time for product longevity.


    The black rubber on the Cadet 3 Flapper starts to blister, this one is six months old.
    Last edited by Terry; 08-21-2009 at 06:01 AM.
    Read what the end of this sentence means.

  2. #2
    Senior Robin Hood Guy Ian Gills's Avatar
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    No big deal, spend a few dollars on a Korky replacement and be done with it.

    I did and I have been as happy as Larry ever since.

    It's not worth getting into a flap over a flapper Dunbar Plumbing.

    There are other problems with this flapper too. On the early versions of the Cadet 3 it would stick open if the chain was very slightly out of adjustment. Again the Korky seems to fix this.

    But I continue to stand behind this Great American Product.

    God Bless America and all named after Her.
    Last edited by Ian Gills; 08-21-2009 at 03:27 PM.

  3. #3
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Gills View Post
    It's not worth getting into a flap over a flapper Dunbar Plumbing.
    You seem to miss the point that the average person won't know the OEM part is junk, may not realize it is leaking for a long time, or that there is an alternative. A company that can't get the simple things to work doesn't inspire confidence. The customer should not be the testing guinea pigs.

    A company that does this, doesn't earn my respect.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  4. #4
    Senior Robin Hood Guy Ian Gills's Avatar
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    I am not a licensed plumber and I noticed the drip, which makes me pretty much an average person.

    I found the blister and replaced the flapper.

    This is exactly the type of pumbing task a homeowner should be doing, and coming to this site to find information about it.

    So here is that information.

    Korky flappers are only guaranteed for 5 years anyway. So a couple of years ain't that bad. Or are you saying flappers should last forever?

  5. #5
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    The average person doesn't know or care what is inside of the tank. They might notice that the water seems to run periodically, and it might take them a long time to notice. There's no sense in getting into an argument here...quality control and a quality product need to both happen. Without both, it's pot luck...I prefer to avoid pot luck. Your results may differ. A sample of one (or even two) is not a good sample.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  6. #6
    Senior Robin Hood Guy Ian Gills's Avatar
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    OK I agree.

    It's an absolutely first class toilet, just with a dodgy flapper.


  7. #7
    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    Except if the bowl rocks and you need to shim it.
    With American Standard, I always insist on taking the bowl out and seeing if it's flat.

    Or if they put the wrong bowl in the box

    Or maybe the bowl just leans


    American Standard Cadet 3 elongated bowl with a built in lean.

    Made in Mexico or Honduras

    And they come standard with a bad flapper.
    I guess that would make it an "American" standard.

    Last edited by Terry; 08-22-2009 at 07:49 AM.

  8. #8
    Senior Robin Hood Guy Ian Gills's Avatar
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    If mine breaks, trust me I'd be the first to change it out.

    But she keeps going strong.

    And I weigh over 250 lbs.

    Even though I'm not American, I'm proud to have "American Standard". World class and with heritage too.

    I'm proud to be have an American Standard where at least I know I'll pee, And I won't forget the men who made it and gave that right to me, And I gladly stand up next to it and defend her still today, 'Cause there ain't no doubt I love this toilet God Bless the AS Cadet 3.


    Last edited by Ian Gills; 08-21-2009 at 06:34 PM.

  9. #9
    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    I like to vacation in Mexico.
    They always seem to be building new hotels while I'm there.
    So what city in Mexico is American Standard from?

  10. #10
    Senior Robin Hood Guy Ian Gills's Avatar
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    Piscataway?

  11. #11
    Plumber Cass's Avatar
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    Ian...heres one for ya...witha little English flair...



  12. #12
    Master Plumber Dunbar Plumbing's Avatar
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    Exclamation Product Reliability Alert!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Gills View Post
    No big deal, spend a few dollars on a Korky replacement and be done with it.

    I did and I have been as happy as Larry ever since.

    It's not worth getting into a flap over a flapper Dunbar Plumbing.

    There are other problems with this flapper too. On the early versions of the Cadet 3 it would stick open if the chain was very slightly out of adjustment. Again the Korky seems to fix this.

    But I continue to stand behind this Great American Product.

    God Bless America and all named after Her.


    No-nononono

    NO.


    This was a big deal, because this particular toilet I supplied, and couldn't get the homeowner to pay for it first.

    So guess who had to take it on the chin for the American Standard? ME.


    One full hour, one customer wanting what went in there, back in there and no retrofit, and we BOTH know that damn flapper is going to leak in another two years.

    You cannot replace the rubber to that piece, which would be a far cheaper repair than $13 for a damn flapper.

    That is what gets people in trouble on some of these toilets, which is retrofittings. I "know" which ones to do it to, and a newly installed toilet isn't one of them.

    It's really hard to pull that flapper assembly out because it's hard plastic and 10 years from now, those tabs will shear/break right off the sides of that overflow tube. Now it's a far bigger job.


    I swear it feels like I bought a Lexmark copier/scanner that you think is the greatest thing since you know the name, all to find out the initial cost wasn't bad, it's where they nail you on the ink or repair parts. That, if you are a Lexmark owner, find out real quick how you spend money after the sale.

    I'm having AS4's flush seals starting to blister as well. American Standard Champion 4's not even 2 years old...that is total BS as the consumer is getting dealt with something that shouldn't be happening so quickly, especially when the competition of lesser quality is getting far more distance between replacements.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Gills View Post
    I am not a licensed plumber and I noticed the drip, which makes me pretty much an average person.

    I found the blister and replaced the flapper.

    This is exactly the type of pumbing task a homeowner should be doing, and coming to this site to find information about it.

    So here is that information.

    Korky flappers are only guaranteed for 5 years anyway. So a couple of years ain't that bad. Or are you saying flappers should last forever?

    What?!?!?!

    The topic is not one, but two different American Standard toilets leaking within 2 years, both doing the same thing, blistering the flush seals.

    Never have I seen a Mansfield 210/211 flush valve seal "blister". They go bad, but it takes years like 5-9 years.

    American Standard isn't stupid, they know how to make money. Sell a good toilet but put parts in it that won't last, but still flushes, it's a dividend that keeps paying, especially if they don't know they can call American Standard (cough!) Meh -hi- co at 1-800-442-1902 Everybody load up on these, tell them yours is leaking so they have to honor the warranty of a defective part.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Gills View Post
    OK I agree.

    It's an absolutely first class toilet, just with a dodgy flapper.


    The jury came back,


    Case has been reopened due to new evidence, negligence on behalf of the interested (guilty) party and a hearing is scheduled soon to determine how much liability is at hand here for knowingly making products that won't withstand the "reasonable timeline" of most products.


    And your evidence of noticing a leak in the same time frame means it is more than just regional, it's NATIONAL, GLOBAL.


    I have put in a lot of these lately...you going to explain to my customers that their purchase came with "conditions" ???

    They won't be happy with a toilet costing them on average $111 every 2 years to keep from wasting water. That's not right.
    Read what the end of this sentence means.

  13. #13
    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    And it's the same black rubber seal that has been blistering.

    Way to go.
    You have found a way to support a company that provides flappers that go bad.
    They changed the color of the plastic holder,

    Big deal

    Looks like I should buy stock in Lavelle, they make the Korky replacement flapper for the Cadet.

    Last edited by Terry; 08-30-2009 at 08:35 AM.

  14. #14
    DIY Senior Member Runs with bison's Avatar
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    Something I've wondered to myself for years: why use these black rubber seals in toilet flappers at all? Why not use some sort of silicone rubber? I realize that silicone rubber is often less supple but I've seen it in various grades of stiffness.

    I used to change out the gaskets on citrate bottles (think Grolsch beer style bottles) for silicone rubber so that we could ship samples of a very volatile, very reactive chemical to customers. That particular silicone was not very pliable or compressible, but worked because of the amount of the force applied by the thick wire cap. The silicone rubber in my scuba masks and straps seems about the right consistency. Perhaps this is a problem of finding the right mix of compressibility while at the same time holding its shape?

  15. #15
    DIY Junior Member
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    We just installed a Cadet 3 in our upstairs bathroom. The bolt from the wall measured 12". The Cadet 3 box states 12" rough. THere is now a huge 3" gap from the back of the toilet to the wall. Is this normal or was this toilet meant for a 10" and put in the wrong box?

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