avg cost for repalcing a 50 gal gas HWH?

I noticed a puddle below my HWH located in the garage this morning. I checke the vlave and copper lines no leaks so assuming the pan is shot?? I dont know that much about these other than to drain the tank every year.
The HWH is the original 15 year old AO Smith.
Should I assume this needs to be replaced?
I called around and got a quote from HD on the GE box box brand for $950
And a quote from my trusted a/c repair shop for $1300 for Bradford White.

After a initial review on this forum, most suggest to stay away form the big box brands and stick with BF,etc. But $1300 seems pricey?? espcially if a HWH runs around 500-600. HD is nice because of deferred payments but typically have stayed away from their other products ie. water softeners.

Am I way off here on what to expect to pay.....

Thanks in advance...
Chris

Can't help you with pricing but are you sure your tank is shot??
Find the leak first. It's possible it's from the T&P and that's easily replacable.
15 years is at/past it's life expency but some have heaters that last 20 years +, especially if you're in the 1% that actually maintains their heater.


T&P Valve looking at two sides.

I would like to say I maintain this yearly but have neglected this some of the years I have been living here. I have noticed the poping of the calcium deposits during hot water start-ups.
I worked my way around the bottom of the tank and cant really see any leaks above the bottom pan. I cant tilt this to see the actual leak. Not sure what the T&P is your refering to? The framed out deck is starting to sag because of water seep.
Anymore feedback on finding the leak or possible part replacement would be helpfull, if its a part changeout great.

I have asked around and found that 1k seems pretty high for new tank and install. I am now thinking of taking a day off and installing the tank myself.
Water in water out and gas hookup - sounds pretty straight forward?
Already have flexible lines and easy access and all the tools and map gas for sweating copper.

Any suggestions of installing? Other than maybe losing out on my local southwest gas rebate which requires licensed plumber install.

Chris

I would get a professional, trusted local firm to do it.

I got a cheap licensed contractor to do my Bradford White only to find he had taken short cuts later (being new to America I naively thought "licensed" meant something and that the Yellow Pages could be trusted, but soon found out the hard way that this ain't England). At the time the country was run by a cowboy and was full of cowboys. Freedom eh? Yeah, to rip people off.

Anyway, my local code requires the WH be hard-piped and he used flexible line. And my old gas WH had a 3 inch vent. The cheap contractor just used a piece of 3 inch vent on the new WH whereas code now specifies a 4 inch vent which required a bigger hole in my wall.

Other things to watch out for are that you need a shut-off on the cold side (if there is not one there already), gas shut-off on the gas line leading to the WH (I didn't have one with my old WH) and may require an expansion tank (for example, if you are on a closed system).

So it's often not a case of swopping the old for the new. Often new work needs to be done as well, subject to local codes, and only a good plumber will tell you this.

The money I saved on the cheap install, then went into paying another licensed plumber to fix the mistakes I noticed later. I bet your HD quote would not take into account these "extras".

T&P, temperature and pressure relief. If that's the only part going bad they have been known to leak intermittently.

T&P:

T&P Valve looking at two sides.

Thanks Matt,

I looked this over again at lunch and didnt notice any water or drips near the T&P valve.

As far as installing HWH myself I will review any updated codes too see if there are any majors changes/additions that would require more work that would be more than my skill or time.

I thought Matt's first name really was "Florida". Another dream shattered...

Ian Gills said:

I thought Matt's first name really was "Florida". Another dream shattered...

Click to expand...

I finally put my name in my sig....only took 3+ years.

I guess you did not get my Christmas cards then?

To:

Mr Florida Orange
Florida
USA

heater

If those "extras" were really required, then the HD installer would have added them to the "standard installation" price he was quoted. The difference in installed prices should only be the difference in cost between the various heaters, since the installation labor and materials would be exactly the same. And why would they require a 4" flue when the heater has a 3" outlet? I have NEVER installed a 4" flue except on 75 gallon heaters.

Let me just say that while installing a water heater isn't exactly rocket science, there are some valid reason why it might be wise to have it done. A 50 gallon heater is heavy and somewhat fragile. If it slips and you drop it, you could be out the price of a new one. Installer drops it, he's out. Venting needs to be done properly for efficient operation and safety. The installer will bring the heater to the house and haul off the old one. I know how to install a heater and have done it. However, 3 months ago, I had to have a new power vent installed in my home. It was too big and too heavy from my aging back to mess with. For $350, I had it installed. Installation price included the new flex pipes, adjusting the length of the vent pipe, removing the plastic drain valve and installing a 3/4" ball valve, and hauling the old one out of the basement and to the happy hunting grounds. I feel it was money well spent. These were licensed plumber too, not handymen. They didn't even charge extra for me watching them! Oh yes, the day before they sent a man to troubleshoot the old heater at no charge.

And why would they require a 4" flue when the heater has a 3" outlet? I have NEVER installed a 4" flue except on 75 gallon heaters.

Click to expand...

It says so in the installation instructions, and yes I would jump in front of a bus if they told me to.

No, I am actually venting a water heater and a furnace through the same chimney, so things can get quite compicated.

Many plumbing contractors are still not paying close enough attention to installing the water heater vent connector. The prevailing attitude is it’s not the plumber’s responsibility to evaluate the design of a water heater venting system.

This is a major problem, and plumbing contractors are not paying attention to it. Water heaters cannot be installed as if nothing has changed. In fact, the vent connector may have changed significantly.

One of the immediate problems is the lack of coordination between the heating contractor and the plumbing contractor. When the heating contractor is responsible for installing the vent system, they often leave the plumbing contractor a 3–inch tee connection for the water heater in a Type B vent. Most plumbing contractors think nothing of the situation and just install the typical 3–inch vent connector for a 40–gallon water heater.

The appliances making life difficult for plumbing contractors are fan-assisted furnaces and boilers. When a fan-assisted furnace or boiler connects to the same chimney or vent as the water heater, you are almost guaranteed to have a change in the vent connector for the water heater.

Dynamic Change: Fan-assisted appliances change the dynamics of the venting system. For most installations, a 40–gallon water heater with a 3–inch outlet on the draft hood is required to have a vent connector that is a minimum of 4 inches in diameter. That means the vent connector has to increase in size by 1 inch.

A plumbing contractor’s immediate reaction is, “Why do I have to increase the vent connector in size? I didn’t do anything different.” Well, in fact, you did make a change in the water heater installation. You connected it to the same chimney as a fan-assisted appliance.

A fan-assisted combustion appliance is rated for a higher efficiency. Hence, the appliance steals as much heat from the flue gases as it can. As a result, the flue gas temperatures are lower. The concern is two-fold: buoyancy to get the products of combustion out the chimney or vent, and condensate. If the temperature is too low, the flue gases condense on the inside wall of the chimney, vent, or vent connector. The condensate is highly corrosive to interior surfaces.

Tables published in the National Fuel Gas Code (NFPA 54), NFPA 211, International Mechanical Code or International Fuel Gas Code can help. Some manufacturers also publish vent sizing tables. If you don’t have these tables or a computer-sizing program based on these tables, you’re probably installing a water heater vent incorrectly when there are fan-assisted combustion units. I should mention that, if there are no fan-assisted combustion appliances, you probably have nothing to worry about.

The rule of thumb I use when I encounter an installation is that a water heater vent connector probably has to be increased 1 inch in size when there is a fan-assisted combustion appliance. When there is a masonry chimney, there may have to be a metal liner installed in the chimney. When there are two fan-assisted combustion units and a water heater connected to a masonry chimney, it is almost guaranteed the chimney will have to be lined.

If it sounds confusing, it gets worse. For some installations to a masonry chimney, the vent connector has to be a double wall connector (Type B) vent. In addition, some fan-assisted combustion units that connect to a Type B vent fall through the cracks of the vent tables. The appliances can never have a single wall vent connector and are required to have a double wall vent connector.

First thing you need to do is to figure out which tables to use. Masonry chimneys, masonry chimneys with metal liners, and Type B vents each have separate tables. These tables are subdivided into “single appliances connecting,” and “multiple appliances connecting.” Then you need to know the vent height, length of the vent connector, rise of the vent connector, number of offsets in the connector, and a few other assorted facts. Armed with all this information it is simple to pull the sizes off the tables.

What about replacement water heaters, you ask? You need to check the vent connector size for the installation of replacement water heaters, as well. If you show up with a new water heater and a fan-assisted combustion appliance is already there, the vent connector will probably have to be increased in size.

If you’re also in the business of installing fan-assisted furnaces or boilers, you need to realize that when you replace an existing appliance with the fan assisted appliance, one of the installation requirements is the installation of a new vent connector to the water heater. Again, you say, “I didn’t do anything to the water heater.” And the vent tables say, “Yes, you did. You changed the dynamics of the entire venting system. Hence, a change is required for the water heater vent.”

Keep in mind that all of this discussion is based on gas-fired appliances. Someone always seems to ask, “What do I do with high efficiency oil-fired appliances?”

“You’re next!”

Fortunately as DIYers, therefore, we are empowered to mediate between the heating and plumbing contractors on the specifics of vent sizing. Without us, there would be such a mess!

One thing that surprises people in my city is they changed the code requirements to include a tempering valve. Plumbing this in adds a bit to what might have been a simple swap. You need to know what your local codes are, as changing this means doing it per the current ones. Also, while lots of people don't do it, most places require a building permit. If you happen to live in earthquake country, you'd need safety straps, and some places require a pan.

Over the phone pricing can be tough.

Some outfits quote for what they expect the final bill to be,

Others like to do the add on thing.

If your tank is 15 years, and there is water on the floor, it's time.

quoteing water heaters

some outfits want to get their foot in the door and charge
about 79 bucks to give you an estimate....

if they do it long enough they should be able to get a good enough descriptioin from you to be able to estimate it over the phone...

Actually, I wish I could get 1300 for every Bradford white I install

Usually the price range for this area is between 750 and 1300... On average I get about 850.
But we do a whole lot of them...

Ian Gills said:

I guess you did not get my Christmas cards then?

To:

Mr Florida Orange
Florida
USA

Click to expand...

I have some connections in the post office, I'll look into it.

Unless you are in the SCAQMD or BAAQMD areas of Calif, the HD price seems a little high, but they may have raised their instll cost. Remember that the price of a permit....could easily be $50 to $100.....will be extra, as will any work required to bring your install up to code. A 15 year old job may have cut corners on earthquake straps, discharge of the TP,etc. Your 15+ year old gate valve is likely not funtioning, and that will need to be replaced. ETC>

I met a licensed plumber at home this afternoon and realized the little puddle on the deck that I had the past few days turned into a good sized puddle! The local staturday morning radio show has them a prefered contractor, which is the past these prefered contractors are usually quite a bit higher in cost - go figure!

Anyway, I had a B.W. installed with new lines, water valve and gas feed and the vent tubes rewrapped and a catch pan with a decent warranty for $1130 And hope to get my $75 gas rebate in about 6 weeks. I personally thought this was high even though I dont know anything about HWH and never had to replace one in my lifetime yet But for $175 over the H.D. GE model that I read was crap I think it was worth it. Others came in around $1300 for Rheem and B.W. models.

Thanks again for the advice

Chris

We are happy that you are up and running. Can't beat the Bradford White. But the GE model in HD is made by Rheem, which also has a fine reputation. The store model may have a few deleted bells and whistles . for example may have a plastic drain valve. But the basic quality is fine. And if you have it installed by their contractor, at least the unit you get will not have been exposed to in-store handling damage. ( The contractor receives his inventory directly from Rheem).

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