Chemilizer

I have a system in which I'll need to treat domestic water for iron and possibly bacteria, but i don't want to treat the irrigation water. I was looking into flow control switches rather than powering a pump off the pressure switch when i found the Chemilizer, a water-powered motor and injector. It seems to be used in greenhouses and livestock operations for the most part, but it's accepted for chemical injection for potable water for humans.

Calibration on the HN55 model, which is good for flow rates to 12 gpm, is done by the solution proportions, not by the machine, which is ordered pre-calibrated at a selection of specified settings. The solution never meets the motor, never touches the diaphragm. (For 12 gpm and up, user-set calibration is achievable.)

Several sites, mostly greenhouse and ag suppliers, have the Chemilizer for about $200.

Take a look:

Water Quality Association

The advantage over a solution feeder like a Stenner is obviously price: the whole Chemigizmo is just a bit more $$$ than a flow switch would have been. The advantage over the pellet chlorinator Gary sells (sorry, Gary!) is that it uses readily available bleach, and the pellets don't need to be rattled down in the feeder so they erode properly.

I did a search of this site in hopes of avoiding being a newb turning over old, soggy ground, but found no mention of this pump here, so i thought you old hands might be intrigued. Anyway, aside from mixing solution, can anyone find a good reason to trash this puppy? Too good to be true?

Colleen

It is an interesting device. Please tell us more why you think you need this? Do you have chemical and baterial results that you can share so that we can determine if this even makes sense for your situation?

I also found a couple neat tools on that Chemilizer site for figuring how long a quantity of solution will last, depending on the properties of the water, the ratio of the pump, and the strength of the solution. There's a worksheet pdf for hand-figuring, and an aplet for plugging in numbers to let the program do the dirty work then tell you how much bleach to how much water.

I posted about my water in the "Gallionella ferruginea" thread in this forum a few days ago, which is the type of IRB found by a lab test after my well was deepened in late May. I also have iron, in apparently fluctuating amounts. Unfortunately, none of the free or paid-for tests agreed with each other, nor with the ones i've done myself. I was mostly on the fence between well-head chlorination and POE chlorination there.

I just finished meticulously shocking the well yesterday in an attempt to kill off the "light occurrence" (labspeak) of IRB, as scrupulously as a homeowner is able to do. I'll now wait to see if the IRB returns before proceeding, but i have to deal with iron in any case.

The costs of equipment seem high to me, like $800 for something described as a "gumball machine" (well-head pellet chlorinator); even Gary's systems are a substantial expense, plus on-going pellet costs. After i ran across the Chemilizerminelli yesterday, i got to thinking a [free] water heater would make a decent retention tank, with incoming and outgoing water at different levels, plus a drain for sediment. Add a carbouy for solution, fittings and hoses, and i get disinfection and oxidation for less than $300, using inexpensive, ubiquitous bleach. Or H2O2...or...

Full disclosure: i have a subscription to Mother Earth News.

Colleen, if the Chemilizer was a good choice, you should know that I'd be selling it.

And you are missing two other types of water powered chem feed systems.

I have sold like 60-70+ of the inline pellet chlorinators over the internet alone, over a number years, and I have never heard of "rattling pellets down".

Now there are two versions of the inline erosion pellet chlorinators. The one I sell and the other is an impostor and has had problems over the years. But mine doesn't.

A bit about the use of bleach... it separates in water meaning it sinks to the bottom of any container because it is heavier than water. Like oil and vinegar. Gasoline and water etc.. So you don't get the same dosage all the time. A bit more about the use of bleach, it weakens from the time it is bottled until you use it and then weakens much more after opening the bottle, and even when in water if the system is not pressurized, like a solution feeder's atmospheric storage tank.

Bleach such as Chlorox is not supposed to be used in potable water water treatment, it says so on the label.

Of all the ways to chlorinate 'potable' water, my system is the least expensive, takes up the least space and it has no moving parts to wear out. Maintenance is cleaning the hopper and adding pellets about every 2-3 months, taking about 30 minutes, and draining any dirt out the bottom of the mixing tank once a month. You do that with a garden hose or a piece of one you leave connected to the ball valve that comes with the unit and it takes about 5 minutes.

Does this chain mail make me look fat?

Gary Slusser said:

Colleen, if the Chemilizer was a good choice, you should know that I'd be selling it.

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Have you personally experimented with the unit? If not, they say they'll give a deal to a retailer wanting to try it out.

And you are missing two other types of water powered chem feed systems.

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I'm confused. Are you referring to the "imposter" v. your chlorinator, or to something besides?

...I have never heard of "rattling pellets down".

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I read about pellets bridging in canisters, and the pellets leaving "shells" that need to be scooped out. I grant these may be sub-optimal installations and pellets, and i did not read it on your site about your unit or pellets.

Now there are two versions of the inline erosion pellet chlorinators. The one I sell and the other is an impostor and has had problems over the years. But mine doesn't.

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I read a post by "meechity" on your website's forum about cleaning out the mushy mess in her chlorinator that made me go "hmmmm..." Disconnecting unions, rubber gloves, safety glasses, and ruined clothes seems more hassle than pouring bleach in a carbouy.

Incidentally, i'm extremely impressed with your customer service ethic; it's as remarkable as your bedside manner.

A bit about the use of bleach... it separates in water meaning it sinks to the bottom of any container because it is heavier than water.

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I can't buy the stratification argument. Household bleach is already ~95% water, with a specific gravity of 1.08, barely above water itself. If stratification were an issue, there'd be a "Shake before using" direction on the bleach jug, no?

I know about sodium hypochlorite losing potency, but i also read that's an issue in higher concentrations, not for lower concentrations like household bleach, and even less so in an injectable solution. Clorox says the bleach starts to drop off in potency in the bottle after six months, then loses 20% per year. Seems workable...

Bleach such as Chlorox is not supposed to be used in potable water water treatment, it says so on the label.

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Well, i have three different bleach brands here, including Clorox, and i don't see that anywhere on a label. The nearest wording is CYA lawyerese prohibiting "using the product in a manner inconsistent with its labeling". Countless gov't sites advise to use household bleach for emergency disinfection. It's used in copious amounts in pools. Truly, the real baddies i'd be worried about would be the byproducts of the chlorine combined with organics, etc., never mind any extraneous stuff in the jug!

Of all the ways to chlorinate 'potable' water, my system is the least expensive, takes up the least space and it has no moving parts to wear out.

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Your chlorinator/tank kit sells for $773, while the $200 Chemilizer and a free water tank adds up to...$200. I grant you that yours has no moving parts. Alternatively, i looked at the parts list on the Chemilizer and i was impressed that one could buy any part individually for a reasonable amount, e.g. they didn't gouge folks by making them buy a whole new gizmolator instead of repairing it.

I mean no disrespect, but my antennae swivel when i read your writing about a "special" tank or a "special" filter, so perhaps you could assuage my misgivings when i read that your small mixing tank can do the job a 50-gal water tank can do WRT contact time....how can that be? Your tank is 12" D. and the 50-gallon tank is 21" D., so i lose a 1-1/2 sf of floor space...not a big deal in my situation as all this magic will happen in my 1500 sf walk-out basement/woodshop.

As you can tell, i enjoy a good debate, and your objections have made me dig to think things through, for which i thank you. I hope you enjoy the back-and-forth, too.

splintergroupie said:

Have you personally experimented with the unit? If not, they say they'll give a deal to a retailer wanting to try it out.

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No I haven't, but I can buy one and sell it to you and you can act like my guinea pig.

There are two other water powered chlorinators, like your chemilizer. IMO they don't work well. They have been around for like 20 years and are not very popular.

splintergroupie said:

I read a post by "meechity" on your website's forum about cleaning out the mushy mess in her chlorinator that made me go "hmmmm..." Disconnecting unions, rubber gloves, safety glasses, and ruined clothes seems more hassle than pouring bleach in a carbouy.

Incidentally, i'm extremely impressed with your customer service ethic; it's as remarkable as your bedside manner.

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I do my best. She is my record, she did it all by herself except for the plumbing, and I admire her greatly. I don't recall the gloves glasses or any ruined clothes, I mentioned those things as a caution; after all, she is a girl and worries a lot as girls are prone to do, ya know? .

splintergroupie said:

I can't buy the stratification argument. Household bleach is already ~95% water, with a specific gravity of 1.08, barely above water itself. If stratification were an issue, there'd be a "Shake before using" direction on the bleach jug, no?

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I'm not talking about in the bottle, I'm talking about pouring it into a tank with 15-30 gals of water. It separates by falling to the bottom, where the feeder suction pickup tube is. Test it for yourself by pouring a cap full or two in a glass and fill the glass with water, stir it all up for as long as you like, then let it sit for a few minutes and you'll see clear water on top of urine colored liquid in the bottom inch or so of the glass.

As the chlorinated solution sits in an atmospheric tank, the chlorine off gasses, weakening the solution. And the pickup tube is sucking up the strongest solution that is constantly weaker with each injection. The chemilizer is pressurized so that off gassing can't happen, but the strongest solution should be on the bottom of the housing unless they stir it up before using the solution.

splintergroupie said:

Well, i have three different bleach brands here, including Clorox, and i don't see that anywhere on a label. The nearest wording is CYA lawyerese prohibiting "using the product in a manner inconsistent with its labeling". Countless gov't sites advise to use household bleach for emergency disinfection. It's used in copious amounts in pools. Truly, the real baddies i'd be worried about would be the byproducts of the chlorine combined with organics, etc., never mind any extraneous stuff in the jug!

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It used to say Caution or Warning: Do not use for water treatment. It sounds as if they have changed that since I last looked (a few years ago). Yeah the government... they used to spray us kids with DDT too.

splintergroupie said:

Your chlorinator/tank kit sells for $773, while the $200 Chemilizer and a free water tank adds up to...$200. I grant you that yours has no moving parts. Alternatively, i looked at the parts list on the Chemilizer and i was impressed that one could buy any part individually for a reasonable amount, e.g. they didn't gouge folks by making them buy a whole new gizmolator instead of repairing it.

I mean no disrespect, but my antennae swivel when i read your writing about a "special" tank or a "special" filter, so perhaps you could assuage my misgivings when i read that your small mixing tank can do the job a 50-gal water tank can do WRT contact time....how can that be? Your tank is 12" D. and the 50-gallon tank is 21" D., so i lose a 1-1/2 sf of floor space...not a big deal in my situation as all this magic will happen in my 1500 sf walk-out basement/woodshop.

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Well it is a special tank, it has a number of patents on it and only the guy that invented it sells it. I am one of his dealers. He sells it around the world.

You missed a critical point, it is equivalent to a 120 gal retention tank, not 50 gal. A 50 gal tank is not going to provide for the minimum 20 minutes contact time, even in a one bathroom house. So you will probably need a much larger water heater tank. That will have a much larger foot print, and weigh much more. In many cases, space is important.

The filter is also special because it uses a special type of carbon, a one of a kind and patented carbon.

splintergroupie said:

As you can tell, i enjoy a good debate, and your objections have made me dig to think things through, for which i thank you. I hope you enjoy the back-and-forth, too.

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Debate is good, and yes I too love a good lively debate. It makes some people THINK instead of FEELING their way through life.

Sad to say, most of our PC society of today feels everything instead of thinking, and looking at it from my point of view, we are in serious trouble now, the whole country is bankrupt and on its way to a very deep depression and super inflation like the world has never seen before. And that is the outcome of feeling our way through financial decisions instead of thinking of the outcome of those decisions.

Gary Slusser said:

No I haven't, but I can buy one and sell it to you and you can act like my guinea pig.

There are two other water powered chlorinators, like your chemilizer. IMO they don't work well. They have been around for like 20 years and are not very popular.

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I picked up a working AO Smith 50 gal. water heater today off craigslist from someone who went tankless...ordering the Chemilizer tomorrow.

I know about the other water-powered ones - there are several, actually - but i read a lot of stories of them clogging or breaking, then folks switching to the Chemilizer. The Dosatron is insanely complicated internally. (They now have a diaphragm model similar to the Chemilizer, but it needs a pre-filter, which the Chemilizer says it doesn't). The other big name, Dosmatic, seems well-made and has the added advantage of adjustability, but it has a poorer website with slooooow video, and costs over twice as much. It includes a spare piston with purchase bec they are prone to failure in a year.

I do my best. [meechity] is my record, she did it all by herself except for the plumbing, and I admire her greatly.

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I started in the trades in '83. Times have changed some, but not enough. It's good to see your encouragement of DIY, and especially of women. Not many appreciate how difficult it is to plumb while dancing backwards in high heels!

Test it for yourself by pouring a cap full or two [of bleach] in a glass ... you'll see clear water on top of urine colored liquid in the bottom inch or so of the glass.

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Must be a vortex around the motorhome, Gary; it doesn't work like that in my neck of the woods. (Yes, i tried your experiment to be sure.) Since household bleach is already a solution of chlorine in water, why doesn't a jug of that stratify, if your theory is correct??

As the chlorinated solution sits in an atmospheric tank, the chlorine off gasses, weakening the solution.

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Only if the surface is exposed to the atmosphere. This is why i'd put a circle of plastic right on top of the solution, just as the diaphragms in my brake and clutch fluid reservoirs separate atmosphere from fluid. I would drill a cut-out to ride up-and-down around the feeder tube. Maybe i should patent my idea...

Yeah the government... they used to spray us kids with DDT too.

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And look how well we turned out!

Well it is a special tank, it has a number of patents on it...

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Patents are public, so why the mystery? It either uses aeration or recirc, and after studying the pic on your site, i'm guessing recirc. I'm just not likely to buy something seen through the mist darkly.

A 50 gal tank is not going to provide for the minimum 20 minutes contact time...

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Pardon?? Unless i fill the soaker tub or do a lot of canning, i won't need that much in a whole day.

The filter is also special because it uses a special type of carbon, a one of a kind and patented carbon.

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But do i need a Gucci bag to carry a wet swimsuit? Patented means proprietary means more $$$. If it's worth it, great. If i can't compare it to others of its class, not so sure. I'm not suggesting you change your sales pitch, just giving you honest feedback on my reservations. Granted, i'm a hard sell.

Sad to say, most of our PC society of today feels everything instead of thinking...

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There's at least one socialist, vegetarian, organic, recycling, 4-cylinder earth-mama who hasn't checked her brains at the door!

splintergroupie said:

I know about the other water-powered ones - there are several, actually - but i read a lot of stories of them clogging or breaking, then folks switching to the Chemilizer. The Dosatron is insanely complicated internally. (They now have a diaphragm model similar to the Chemilizer, but it needs a pre-filter, which the Chemilizer says it doesn't). The other big name, Dosmatic, seems well-made and has the added advantage of adjustability, but it has a poorer website with slooooow video, and costs over twice as much. It includes a spare piston with purchase bec they are prone to failure in a year.

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None of them are the two I was thinking of.

splintergroupie said:

It's good to see your encouragement of DIY, and especially of women. Not many appreciate how difficult it is to plumb while dancing backwards in high heels!

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Some say, now not me, but some, that the reason they can do that is because they see things backwards.

splintergroupie said:

Must be a vortex around the motorhome, Gary; it doesn't work like that in my neck of the woods. (Yes, i tried your experiment to be sure.) Since household bleach is already a solution of chlorine in water, why doesn't a jug of that stratify, if your theory is correct??

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Actually there's a nice breeze but no vortexes. I've not tested it in the motorhome but in clear sump "whole house" disposable filter housings it does. Obviously you messed up my test, you didn't use enough bleach or let it sit long enough, or it's your gunky water... I was using about 1 to 1.25 qts and running water in and right out of the housing and after running maybe 10-15 gallons of water, the level of bleach would be 2-4" in the bottom of the housing. So damn it, you made me get up and go get the WalMart Rain Scented 3 qt bottle of Bleach SHE has here and do a test. SHE uses way too much of the stuff but she sees things backwards and won't listen... Anyway, I didn't use enough bleach, too much water, so it didn't separate the first time. And, there is no list of ingredients or the percentage of sodium hypochlorite in this bleach. I used to use regular Chlorox.

splintergroupie said:

Patents are public, so why the mystery? It either uses aeration or recirc, and after studying the pic on your site, i'm guessing recirc. I'm just not likely to buy something seen through the mist darkly.

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Nope, and no mystery, and I'm doing my best to demystify you, I've taken the time many times to say... there is a baffled fluid mixing type distributor tube in the tank.

splintergroupie said:

Pardon?? Unless i fill the soaker tub or do a lot of canning, i won't need that much in a whole day.

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Sorry, I need to say that again. The water has to be in contact with the bacteria a minimum of 20 minutes before you use the water. It doesn't have anything to do with how little or much water you use. But a girlie bubble bath might help you in other areas of your life, ya never know until you do it.

splintergroupie said:

But do i need a Gucci bag to carry a wet swimsuit? Patented means proprietary means more $$$. If it's worth it, great. If i can't compare it to others of its class, not so sure. I'm not suggesting you change your sales pitch, just giving you honest feedback on my reservations. Granted, i'm a hard sell.

There's at least one socialist, vegetarian, organic, recycling, 4-cylinder earth-mama who hasn't checked her brains at the door!

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Gucci bag... no, but what the hell! why does an old hippie have a bathing suit!! That's like a biker chick hiding a makeup kit on her Harley. Sacrilege!!

It is proprietary true, but no moving parts and there is no way it can fail/break/wear out etc. and as far as pricey, nope, if the cats ruin it, you do have cats right? the dist. tube retails for like $125 including delivery.

Anyway, good luck with the Chemilizer and reused old scaled up water heater tank. lol. We expect pictures, including yourself, just so we can check for plumbers' 'pants'.

pssstttt IIRC, this might be Meechity (with the ponytail), girls with a ponytail always get a second look, 3 or 4 if she's in jeans and a T shirt. No sir, no expensive bags and high heels for me. A ball cap really tops it off. And if she can bait her own hook... or listens to Rush, WOW!

LOL, no plumbers' cracks here, wise or not, cuz i wear bib overalls for woikin', doncha know. I've got the ponytail hangin' down, though, as well as a giggle in my talk, for all you Jerry Lee Lewis fans.

I hadn't seen your explanation of a "baffled fluid mixing type distributor tube" in any of my reading, but if it takes as long to do it as say it, i'm sure it's sufficient! I'm baffled, for sure, to see how it gets 'round the 20-minute contact-time problem you claim i have, but my water heater retention tank makes as much sense to me an a retention tank purchased for $300, which is what is normally suggested in these cases. This water heater must have been on softened water...not a bit of scale on the pipe or drain when i checked it before committing to relieve the poor home-owner of her burden.

In any case, i can use the Chemilizer for fertigation if my plan flops. I found a great deal at Farmer Boy Ag for $211 inc. shipping; they shipped it yesterday, so i'm busy moving utility-room furniture this weekend to make the flow more elegant. I will definitely report back either way bec i've used this site well for my head-scratching. Or...look for my article in Mother Earth News! <G>

But first, i have to put my war paint on and move the Harley out of the way...

Geez, high heels aren't in my wardrobe and never will be; you'd be hard pressed to find anything BUT jeans and t-shirts in my house. I own 4 pairs of shoes and 2 of those are shi*tkickers for slogging through the muddy creek with a shovel during the rainy season. I could bait hooks in circles around my grandpa back in the 80's, even took one or two in the face, but I don't anymore; it's not a pleasant affair for the fish to have a hook punched through the most sensitive area of his anatomy. I am a vegan. I am also an atheist, a social liberal, a fiscal conservative, pro-abortion, and at 5'8"/130lbs I can drink bartenders under the table.

All in all, I'm relatively happy with the chlorinator - it's simple with no moving parts to break or fail - not so happy about the cleanup and the godawful fumes, but I'm sure it will get easier as I go along. I don't feel completely comfortable relying 100% on local professionals... and if I must, I ask them questions until I am satisfied that they respect my capacity for comprehension without begrudging me. Then I proceed to "worry" (gather information) to the point that I have enough instruction to sustain me through any malfunction I can conjure up in my head (especially concerning expensive equipment). Anything more or less is, in my opinion, unhealthy disillusionment. I know plenty men and women who wouldn't know what to do if a water pipe broke or a fuse blew.


Ciao (^_^)
~Meech

PS - I don't own a TON of Rush, but I don't miss an opportunity to jam out to Tom Sawyer.

PPS - Not my crack.

AHHA... a T shirt'n jeans, no high heels social liberal fiscal conservative but what's with the Vegan! No wonder yer so skinny. Maybe now that you have great water...

No no! Wrong Rush, but I suspect you knew that. Do you have a guitar? Can ya sing? Duets?

Ya know, now they make fake worms and Banjo minnows...

I notice we don't have any pics of that chemilizer yet.

Meechity said:

I am a vegan. I am also an atheist, a social liberal, a fiscal conservative, pro-abortion, and at 5'8"/130lbs I can drink bartenders under the table.

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Good goddess, we must have been separated at birth! I'm an excommunicated Mormon, polyandrous, animal rights activist, though i took after the midgets in the family. Do you eat top ramen noodles dry, over the sink? I'll see your fly fishing and raise you growing up on a cow pony in the wilds of Montana, for which i've ato[fu]ned since 1991, also after a fishing trip involving a gaff, a rather larger fish hook.

All in all, I'm relatively happy with the chlorinator

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That's refreshing to hear on this forum filled with water woes. I picked up a surplus water heater and ordered the Chemilizer bec i'm nearly congenitally incapable of not allowing my curiosity full rein while maintaining professional cheapskate status. I haven't installed it since i shocked the well meticulously, as i wrote earlier. I've had a few days of slightly yellow-tinted water since doing that 23 days ago, but my aerators and toilet tank are clear so far. I'm still waiting to see if, by some miracle, i've rid my well and piping of introduced IRB before i proceed. Fingers are crossed that i'll only need an iron filter.

Before purchasing the Chemilizer, i also "worried" a lot of carnivores who used chlorinators in agribusiness. They all said the Chemilizer actually works, while other types of water-motored injectors are fraught with breakage, fouling, and dosing issues. Although i haven't installed it, from looking it over, it seems well made and finished. I'll keep it to fertigate the landscaping and greenhouses if i don't use it for chlorinating the domestic water.

PPS - Not my crack.

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I knew that; she's not dirty enough. Could be Lily Allen, though...

I hadn't checked in here since i last posted. I guess you and Gary were vibin' me, happily, as i'm very pleased to meet you.

Gary Slusser said:

I notice we don't have any pics of that chemilizer yet.

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For now, it looks just like the one in the link i posted. I have to say that it was packed well, and fit and finish are very good. Here's hoping i don't need to install it! I know i'm not supposed to be able to rid my well of IRB, but perhaps i have anyway.

I filled four clean, 35-gallon, trash cans with water, chlorinated them, then dumped them down the well casing while recirculating the water through the hydrant. I figure i had about a hundred feet of water standing on top of the static level, abt 300 gallons in total. It's a technique i read about somewhere to force chlorinated water back out the perforations in the bottom of the casing, thereby treating the outside of the casing, too. I used 6 gallons of chlorine and yes, it was very strong. I'd used less before when i shocked the well, twice, and the IRB came back in two days.

I filled all the piping with chlorinated water and flushed them periodically, then added more chlorine. After 18 hours, i purged the well to clear water, then repeated it all over again.

That last bit was my own idea. My reasoning was to pump all the dirty crap out, then freshly chlorinate the IRB while their nacelles were cracked and warp drive disabled.

I'll post any new developments.

splintergroupie said:

I guess you and Gary were vibin' me, happily, as i'm very pleased to meet you.

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lol... same here. (^_^) Good luck with your system. Well, it's back to the creek for me!

Meechity said:

lol... same here. (^_^) Good luck with your system. Well, it's back to the creek for me!

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Did you ever finish your testing on the chemilizer set up? I'm thinking the same thing.

splintergroupie said:

I have a system in which I'll need to treat domestic water for iron and possibly bacteria, but i don't want to treat the irrigation water. I was looking into flow control switches rather than powering a pump off the pressure switch when i found the Chemilizer, a water-powered motor and injector. It seems to be used in greenhouses and livestock operations for the most part, but it's accepted for chemical injection for potable water for humans.

Calibration on the HN55 model, which is good for flow rates to 12 gpm, is done by the solution proportions, not by the machine, which is ordered pre-calibrated at a selection of specified settings. The solution never meets the motor, never touches the diaphragm. (For 12 gpm and up, user-set calibration is achievable.)

Several sites, mostly greenhouse and ag suppliers, have the Chemilizer for about $200.

Take a look:

Water Quality Association

The advantage over a solution feeder like a Stenner is obviously price: the whole Chemigizmo is just a bit more $$$ than a flow switch would have been. The advantage over the pellet chlorinator Gary sells (sorry, Gary!) is that it uses readily available bleach, and the pellets don't need to be rattled down in the feeder so they erode properly.

I did a search of this site in hopes of avoiding being a newb turning over old, soggy ground, but found no mention of this pump here, so i thought you old hands might be intrigued. Anyway, aside from mixing solution, can anyone find a good reason to trash this puppy? Too good to be true?

Colleen

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Did you ever finish your testing with the chemilizer?