First time sweating copper

Fabricator · Jul 12, 2009

hello, gents. thanx for the quality forum

i am going to install, hopefully, my new shower valve today. it is a MOEN 3330.

1, i plan to use all the old copper. is this an issue ? i will, of course, clean it very well.
2, are the items in my pic good to use ? which solder ?
3, are there any issues soldering copper to brass ?
4, anything helpfull tips ?

i did watch many youtube vids, and it looks pretty easy.

tia

Fabricator · Jul 12, 2009

this is where it is going.

Sponsor · 2022-01-29T12:20:58-0800

SewerRatz · Jul 12, 2009

The No Lead solder is the way to go. Looks like you have what you need except the emery cloth to clean the pipe and fittings, or a fitting brush.

Jimbo · Jul 12, 2009

Use the no lead solder. Can't see what type the other solder is. Also can't read the paste. It should be plumbing type, listed for lead free solder.

Apply the heat mostly to the brass piece, which presumably is heavier.
Get done in as short a time as possible, probably not exceeding a minute.

If you hold the torch too far back you will just take too long and burn away the flux before the metal will take the solder.

Fabricator · Jul 12, 2009

thanx guys.

i have a brush. just forgot to get it out of the garage.

the other solder is "savbit". i have no clue what its made for.

i am reading threads now. i am going to wrap the valve in a wet rag. and i am going to open the 2 valves. i DON'T want any leaks. i am also going to cap the ends, and turn the water on for days, to check for leaks.

Redwood · Jul 12, 2009

This isn't exactly the easiest job for an inexperienced DIYer...

Prepare yourself for possible problems that may keep you from being able to turn the water back on and placing an emergency call for a plumber on Sunday...

Pick up 2 Sharkbite end caps 1/2" in size....

If you end up having leaks you can just cut and cap the 1/2" copper supplying the valve and make it a non-emergency call at yours and the plumbers convenience...

Just having them around will ensure the job goes off correctly...

You can then use them as test caps on the tub spout and shower...
They are removable and reusable...

Terry · Jul 12, 2009

I remove the cartridge while soldering and reinstall it after the valve has cooled.

I'm still trying to figure out what the coins are for.

Shacko · Jul 12, 2009

Shower Valve

If those pipes you have in the back are home made anti-shocks get rid of them and get a real shock absorber, the home made ones are close to useless.

Make sure you get the measurment for the valve EXACT, you don't want to tear it out if its not where it should be,

BTW you can't use a red tourch on this install,LOL

Herk · Jul 12, 2009

How old is that flux? I don't remember seeing "brush-in-cap" for years.

Don't take the torch off the bottle indoors - unscrew it outside in case the seal lets go. It's rare, but it happens. I never leave the torch on the bottle when it's not in use.

Fabricator · Jul 12, 2009

ok, guys. thanx for the additional tips.

the job is done. i had no real problems. and no leaks so far, still have to plug at the top and make sure the after valve doesn't leak. i ran it, works fine.

i did take the cartridges out. the coins are my lifes savings

those shocks are what was in there. had no problems with em.
i measured a lot. while i don't claim that it is perfect, i think it will be just fine.
why can't i use a red torch

i plumber friend i used to have, gave me the solder and flux. 12ish years ago.
its still nearly full.

this was actually pretty easy.

TedL · Jul 13, 2009

Perhaps it's just the angle, but the valve looks like it might be set too far into the wall. Did you double and tripe check the relationship to the finished wall?

Redwood · Jul 13, 2009

Good deal on getting it done...

Now get rid of those air chambers extending up the wall and install a couple of these....

http://www.siouxchief.com/Supply/Ar...ers/Water-Hammer-Arresters2/Mini-Rester.7R7YG

Fabricator · Jul 13, 2009

TedL said:
Perhaps it's just the angle, but the valve looks like it might be set too far into the wall. Did you double and tripe check the relationship to the finished wall?

it is the angle. it is out about 1" from the studs, and it can be moved either way a little. 1/2 drywall, kerdi, tile, should be a little under 1".

Fabricator · Jul 13, 2009

thanx , Red. i don't have a problem with hammer. what would those fix ? would a "big box" have them ?

Redwood · Jul 13, 2009

They would eliminate those 2 1/2' long air chambers you presently have...

Seaofnames · Jul 14, 2009

Those fake arrestors can actually contaminate your water. If the chamber fills with water(going one way) and then suddenly is sucked out from the demand of the shower, it goes the other way, ripping off the deposits on the inside of the copper and sending them out of the shower head.

Same thing happens if the city tries to clear a water main by sending water backwards through the main under the street. It does clean it, but all of the deposits come off the pipe and water needs to be boiled/filtered if it is to be potable for the next few days after.

The easy way would to be just cut most of the extra pipe on and leave about 3/4" of a stub and solder a copper cap on. Another choice would be to take off the Tee and just put an ell in its place...

Shacko · Jul 14, 2009

Fabricator:...."why can't i use a red torch"....That was a joke, you seen the LOL on the end, didn"t you?.

SewerRatz · Jul 14, 2009

I do not know what you all have agains air chambers. This is right out of the Illinois Plumbing Code book.

Air Chambers − Air chamber installed in a fixture supply, it shall be at least 12 inches in length and the same diameter as the fixture supply. An air chamber with a volume equivalent to one with the dimension listed above may also be used. Where an air chamber is installed in a riser, it shall be at least 24 inches in length and at least the same size as the riser.

Redwood · Jul 14, 2009

SewerRatz said:
I do not know what you all have agains air chambers. This is right out of the Illinois Plumbing Code book.

Air Chambers − Air chamber installed in a fixture supply, it shall be at least 12 inches in length and the same diameter as the fixture supply. An air chamber with a volume equivalent to one with the dimension listed above may also be used. Where an air chamber is installed in a riser, it shall be at least 24 inches in length and at least the same size as the riser.

Apparently They only still work in Illinois...
Everyone else has figured out they don't work and has switched over to hammer arrestors...

If you go and cut the end cap off on you will see a nice patina all the way onto the cap.
They rapidly fill with water and are ineffective.

SewerRatz · Jul 14, 2009

Redwood said:
Apparently They only still work in Illinois...
Everyone else has figured out they don't work and has switched over to hammer arrestors...

If you go and cut the end cap off on you will see a nice patina all the way onto the cap.
They rapidly fill with water and are ineffective.

When I repiped my mothers home I made sure each fixture had air chambers. I think about once every 7 to 8 years I have to drain down the system to clear the air chambers of water. I think it is much easer to drain a system than have to reopen a wall to replace a failed mechanical arrestors.

First time sweating copper

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