casing bump

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madfire

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Hi folks, new to the site and want to ask some opinions. I have a residential well that is losing pressure. The pump was put in in 2000. It has max amp pull of 13 and is still pulling 12.2. Company says i have a hole in pipe. Here's my dilemma. The person who did the well in 2000 made a not that there is a bump in the case at 190 feet. He says most wells on street have had to be redrilled due to shearing. He said to leave it alone until it completely fails. He also said he might get it out and not get it back in then I'm looking at $16,000 to redrill. I'm wondering if I should put new pipe and pump and hope to get another 10 years before the hole gets to big and I MIGHT be still able to get a new pump down. Also what is the cost of sleeving. Thanks
Mark
 

Speedbump

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Shearing? That's a new term in Well Drilling to me. Are you in California where they have faults?

Lining a well can be done if the casing is large enough to start with. What is the diameter of your well?
 

Speedbump

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If the place even has frost, it's too cold for me. I did my thirty some years drilling in Michigan, never again. I'll stick to sunshine and heat.
 

madfire

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The well is 450, static 189, and pump at 252. Well has been in for at least 20-30 years. Metal casing and drop pipe. I live in NV and the ground was shiftlig lt and rt on the other wells. As far as mine on the cement slab it is split and right where the well head is is about 6 inches higher than the rest of the slab. don't know if ground around is sinking or the well is pushing up. He said it's looked that way for 20 years. He said it's like crushing a beer can and he thinks the casing is trying to push up. He has written in the control panel cover when he last changed the pump and "rough spot 190' " Sorry, I think the casing is 4 or 6 inch.
 

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I think the hole is in the drop pipe, not the casing. I have seen casing with a "bump" in it many times. If you can get the pump through that spot, it is usually OK. I would put in new pipe so it would last as long as possible. I will bet the hole is in the pipe threads, just above the check valve on the pump. If you will rap over this spot with regular electric tape, it won't make a new hole in such a short time.
 

madfire

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Yes, he says the hole is in the drop pipe. When he put in a new pum he didn't do the pipe because the people that lived here then wanted to do it on the cheap. Now I have found a franklin pump, motor and control box for 1100. The drilling company wants 2050 for the same package. I told her I was doing my research before I spend that much money. She said the more parts I but myself the more she charges for labor, up to double. I know they have to mark up materials but double the price. Does that sound right. I know they have to make a living but I also need to watch money.
 

madfire

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The pump is a new pump with warranty. If it goes out the pump is warranted but not the labor
 

madfire

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I will have to ask but the way he made it sound is the pump is warranted but I would still have to pay labor if they had to pull it out again whether I bought it from them or not.
 

madfire

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Thanks for everybody's help. I'm going to compare a couple of companies and there prices. Not too many out here. Franklikn or Goulds which is a better pump
 

Terry

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Most contractors will warranty their installation for a year.
That would mean, that a supplied part would be replaced labor free in that first year.

A homeowner supplied part has no labor warranty.
 

madfire

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Just talked to another company. His price was a lot better. Going to send me estimates on redrilling, sleeving, and just putting in new pump and pipe. Now the question is whether to go with standard pump or constant pressure pump.
 

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I am a little biased because I have been replacing variable speed pumps with Cycle Stop Valves for over 17 years now. My best customers are the ones who have already tried the variable speed route, and then switched to a Cycle Stop Valve to get some dependablity. It's not that I
don't understand them. I studied and installed variable speed systems and electronics for many years, and that is why I will never use another one. That web page for Franklin is cute, but it doesn't tell you anything. I talk to installers everyday that say they are finished with the variable speed thing, because they can't afford the warranties and mad customers over and over.
 

Gary Slusser

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I didn't see where the depth of the casing was mentioned. If this is a rock bore well, the rough spot can simply be a rock protrusion or crooked hole, at 190'. It's quite common.

The cracked and heaved cement on the surface may have nothing to do with the well and could be frost heave or, a pitless adapter water leak under the slab.

Trying to put a 4" pipe (sleeve) in a 6" rock bore well with a "rough spot" at 190' may not work because 4" pipe, even PVC, doesn't bend well but, then you get to put a 3 7/8" submersible down the 4" ID pipe past the 190' area... Or you go with a 3" pump if you can find one that will deliver the volume you need at the pressure you require at the depth you have to water.

IMO that is a bit too many things to go wrong when possibly, and for much less money, you can simply fix the leak in the drop pipe by replacing it, especially since it wasn't replaced with the last new pump but they knew there was this rough spot at 190'.

I suggest using 160 or 200 psi rated PE pipe.

No one has said yet what type of drop pipe is in the well, and if it isn't galvanized, but in NV it may be, for a pump at 250', two guys using their heads and some instructions and common tools can pull and replace a pump themselves, especially if it's not on galvanized, and with a backhoe etc. they can anyway. All you have to do is be able to lift it and hold the pipe and pump from falling down the well while you unscrew the sections of pipe and rest if needed.

As to warranty on labor for submersible pump work. Where I'm from, no pump guy or driller to my knowledge warranted their ability to tighten fittings properly etc.. It's either right and doesn't leak, or the pump doesn't fall off or quit running, or it does and who would want someone that can't tighten a fitting correctly, or do a splice kit right, or who didn't tape or other wise protect the cable correctly etc. etc. to come back to fix it?

But how would anyone know that stuff wasn't done right without pulling the pump?

And why wouldn't the customer call the guy that put it in to to fix it? Especially if it was just a few years ago; like within some other guys' warranty period. And there's always small claims court if some idiot didn't do "it" right.

I think a labor warranty on pump work is just another way to charge higher prices, like extended warranties on household appliances. And the people that want and buy it or them can't think logically and are scared; many times by the pump guy or whoever is doing the pump work...

Madfire, unless it's on galvanized, before I'd pay someone to pull this pump and find where the leak is, I'd get a buddy or two and pull it myself. I also would not go a variable speed etc. type pump. I'd go a regular pump and if I wanted constant pressure I'd go a CSV.
 

Gary Slusser

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Let us review what was posted. The well and drop are metal. The well is old, 20/30 years. It has problems in the casing. Many other local well have been replaced. IMO, time for a new one. Prices will just go up.:cool::cool:
Yes the first time I looked I didn't catch the metal casing "and drop pipe" part.

As to the rest of your review, it is highly slanted toward a new well because you are a well driller.

And that is what you are selling, a new well, although you're in MI and not NV. And it is meant to protect, or at least promote, well drillers. I on the other hand have given good advice without selling anything other than if he wants to, he can probably do the job himself and at great savings.

What does the age have to do with it when there is no problem with the volume or quality of the water? And the only problem is a hole in t ehdrop pipe?

Actually that good volume and quality of water is the function of a good well, so all you want him to do is replace a good well. Why is that in a DIYer forum?
 

Gary Slusser

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In time metal casing WILL get a hole in it. 20 years, not to bad. 30 years, getting there. That pump is a long way down to do it without a hoist. If he can do it good. Ever see what a guy looks like when the chain broke from pulling a pump with a back hoe??? Either have I, it was a closed casket funeral.
He and you and I have no evidence that there is a hole in the casing.

Thirty years or 40 years, he asked if WE thought he might get another 10 years out of it.

He might, he might not but, you seem to be running on estrogen and fear that he can't. Me, it's testosterone, and I say what the hell, you'll never know unless you give it good whack and pay attention to later results.

BTW, before someone gets her thong twisted, that male thing, it's what has allowed mankind to survive for however long you think men and women have been walking upright, and it allows you to be communicating in English and living your present lifestyle. And if he hurts himself, he will never do it again, as they say in Loosyanna (sic), it's gar un teed.

Frankly, us guys that git'er done, we learn most from our failures, and if we're really open minded, the failures of others. To do that we can't run around scared, or crying over what MIGHT happen... Do ya know that statistically, what we fear the most, usually never happens? And the only thing to fear, is fear itself! It actually stops millions of people from many things that would help them and imporve their lives and the lives of others around them.

Anyway, a long way down! Woman it's only 252'!

See there's more of that female estrogen caused fear stuff.... long way or short way, a lb is still 16 ounces. Yet with a hole in the drop pipe, that lets water out of the pipe lightening the load at the rate of 8.47 lbs, is it? per gallon. And we all seem to expect the hole to be at the "rough spot" at 190'. I suspect you didn't think of that. I did like two days ago.

Yeah I've worked with my fair share of chains, as an electric company ground hand and lineman for a few yrs in the construction department working 10 hr days and really, lotsa chains here, as an owner operator of 4 tractor trailers for like 10 yrs hauling all shapes of steel, aluminum and pipe of all sizes on flatbed trailers. Then I got smart and went to hauling overseas shipping containers put on and taken off with overhead cranes, and THEN, along came smarter, and I went to hauling food stuff in food grade tankers (they pumped it in or let it run in and I pumped it out, or just left it run out), that's why if I were doing the instructing here, I would suggest strap, and an inexpensive pipe vice.

psssstt, for a nurse, attorney and very expensively successful 10 yr well driller wife of a well driller, this highscrool grad thinks that's "too bad" and "Neither" have I.

I just saw the latest posts...

As I have shown above, no doubt about it, you are slanted toward most everyone with any problem in the well, drilling a new well.

Sammy, come on man, you're a licensed driller'n all that, instead of fighting by stirring the pot, contribute some of your knowledge, do you think Mudfire should drill a new well or replace the drop pipe, and why?

BTW, I'm replying to someone that directly replied to something I said. Is that what you meant by how and who causes problems?
 

Upper

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Hey Madfire you get those estimates yet? We need to know how to spend your money.I am getting A down the road rig.And name her Pandellas Box,and follow Gary around in his motorhome.....................:):):eek: Upper
 

madfire

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Well I got those estimates. It was 26,000 to drill new well and cap old one or 2300 for new pipe, varible 2 hp franklin system, and labor. Now I sure don't have 26,000 so you know what I am going to do. The only reason I don't do it mysel is I'm afraid if the bump in the case stopped the pump I wouldn't feel it with the back hoe and rip it off. Then I'd have no choice but the 26,000. My friend already pulled one with a hoe and it was pretty simple. He made a clamp and used the fork so it wouldn't fall back in the well. Now the driller here says he likes the vds and they have come a long way. He's actually making less on that pump than just a plain old goulds. So I don't think it's a money thing.
 

Upper

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Abandonment? What is a couple of yards of base and 20 feet of grout ,plus permit.easy deal in Ca.Except permit is a little pricey.Is your well cased all the way down to 450?........Upper
 

madfire

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Sorry something else I found out is that my well is only 300. It is cased down to that point. Just for filling the well they want 4500. I have noticed out here that the prices on the materials is doubled or tripled if I go through a well drilling company. Is that normal?Examples: pump, motor, and control box through the first company: 2052, find it myself 1109, Pipe through the company 3.56 ft, find it myself 1.25 ft.
 

Valveman

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