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Thread: Offset and Height issue...

  1. #1

    Default Offset and Height issue...

    Hello All,

    When I built my house 5yrs ago, I had the plumbers rough in a bathroom. Now that I have the cash to finish it. I have run into, I think a major, problem. The 3" rough-in for the toilet is 9 1/4"(center of 3") from the FRAME (Not finished wall). Can't move the wall, yeah that wouldve been easy. So I thought, EASY, get an offset and "Wham Bam thank you man" toilet done. Now here is the problem. The 3" 90 is only 5/8" from the top of the concrete and the offset is 4 1/4" tall. Then I came up with another idea. I would build a platform around the offset and then put the toilet on it. With all my calculations. The platform will have to be 3 3/4" tall and if I purchase a 14 1/2" bowl height toilet with a 10" rough in, the toilet bowl height would be around 18" tall. I know this is high. I could cut 1/2" off the offset joint and save another 1/2"?

    If anyone has any other idea's or comments it would be much appreciated. Attached are pictures.

    Thank you in advance,
    Ted
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  2. #2
    In the Trades Gary Swart's Avatar
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    This is not going to be an answer you have been hoping for. Sorry, but that's the way it is. What you have is an 8-3/4" rough-in, assuming a 1/2" drywall over the studs. That won't work on any toilet. Building a platform is definitely the sign of a hack job. It will be unsightly, and totally mickey mouse. My best advise is to break out the concrete to access the pipes and do it right. I would suggest a plumber to do the pipe work, but the neatest way to handle the concrete is to hire a concrete cutting company. You can do it you self, but it is a fair amount of work and can be messy. Certainly the pros charge for what they do, but it is done quickly, they clean up the mess, and it's done right. I would urge you not to go the platform route.

  3. #3

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    Gary,

    Yeah, I have already reserved a concrete saw and jack hammer on Monday. I paid for college working as a plumber, so the only cost will be my manicured hands (joking) and the rentals and quickcrete. I was hoping for a "Old Plumbers" trick. I even contemplated making the 3" 90 into a street 90 using a special hole saw, but even then it would be a hack job. Thank you for your quick response.

    Last edited by Terry; 12-15-2009 at 04:02 PM.

  4. #4
    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
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    Default conversion

    It would have to be a very "special" hole saw to convert a 90 into a street 90. You would also have to perform some legerdemain to accomplish it. A concrete saw is a needless expense if you have a sledge hammer available.

  5. #5

    Default

    Looks like you've got it covered. I'd suggest a 3x4 reducing closet bend. It'll allow you to transition to a 4" riser. Pour your concrete around that, then when the floor is finished, cut the riser off flush and put your flange in and secure it. Makes for a much cleaner install. Don't forget to pin the existing slab and patch together with rebar.
    I consider myself an accomplished DIY'er. I don't know everything but help where I can. I'm not a pro, but like to think I'm professional.

  6. #6
    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    Now is the time to break out the concrete and move it.

    Before it becomes nearly impossible.

  7. #7

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    Just picked up the concrete saw, on my way downstairs to start cutting. Thanks for all the advice, will update when done.

  8. #8

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    Well, after two saws (One Electric and One Gas. Gas is the way to go) and 3 Fiber blades. I have cut thru my 5 1/2" slab! (6" in some places) I have cut the pipe and placed the 3x4 Closet Bend. Its very interesting that the top of closet bend is 1/2" below the slab. I put a standard closet flange on and it doesnt sit flush. I havent found a 4" riser, but havent really looked. Could I find it at a Lowes? Here are some picts.
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  9. #9
    Plunger/TurdPuncher kingsotall's Avatar
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    4" riser┐ You mean a piece of 4" ABS┐
    I just post cuz I like to see my avatar.

  10. #10
    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    I would be looking at a 4x3 spigot bend and a 4" hub flange.

    Or with the 4x3 hub flange that is 1/2" below the rough floor, I would be thinking 4" ABS pipe
    Cut it flush after the finish floor is in,
    And use a 4.x spigot water closet flange that glues inside a 4" pipe.

  11. #11

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    Or with the 4x3 hub flange that is 1/2" below the rough floor, I would be thinking 4" ABS pipe
    Cut it flush after the finish floor is in,
    And use a 4.x spigot water closet flange that glues inside a 4" pipe.

    Exactly what I was saying. The "riser" is just a vertical section of pipe coming out of the elbow you have there. I know the terms "spigot" and "hub" and such can get confusing, but if you go the store where you got all the fittings, just play around with them and find the ones that fit and work the way you need. Here's a couple pictures to show what I mean.

    Use a 4x3 hub x hub reducing elbow, put a 4" pipe coming out the top, pour your patch, tile or whatever it is you want to do.


    Cut the pipe (riser) off flush with the floor. The tape is just to protect the floor.




    Install your flange that fits inside the 4" riser. Use stainless screws or exterior screws. Anchors too in your case. I like flanges with stainless rings.




    Don't forget to pin the slab and patch together. In your case, you can drill some holes in each edge of the existing slab and insert some wedge anchors and tighten them down. Doing this stops the patch and slab from moving independently of each other.
    Last edited by iminaquagmire; 07-07-2009 at 10:41 AM.
    I consider myself an accomplished DIY'er. I don't know everything but help where I can. I'm not a pro, but like to think I'm professional.

  12. #12

    Default

    That is exactly what i did. I used a 4x3 90 and put a 12"x4" riser in it. With the finished floor it will be about 3 1/2" tall.. Yes, I will pin and mesh the concrete patch. Thank you all for the advice and comments. Never worked with ABS before, only cast iron. Will post the finished product.

    Thank you again.
    Ted

  13. #13

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    Headache and more headaches. After paying someone to frame the basement, you shouldn't have inspectors feel bad for you. Needless to say, the last few days have been spent re-framing all the walls myself. Now I am back to the bathroom and I have another question. I have attached a few picts to help with my question. I always assumed that SIDE B was my tub drain, but after looking at closer I am more unsure and SIDE A might be the drain. I have tried to contact the plumber who roughd in the bathroom, but he hasnt returned my calls. Can you guys tell which one is correct side for the drain. Below are few reasons for each side.

    SIDE A DRAIN:
    1. Its cleared around the ABS pipe.

    SIDE B DRAIN:
    1. Above SIDE A is the vent to the roof.

    The "What is this?" question could be the vent for the floor drain in the utility room, but I would think that would be hooked up when the house was finished 5 yrs ago...

    My head hurts and aspirin isnt helping...
    Thank you in advance for any comments and help.
    Ted

    If you would like me to repost this in the shower/tub section, please let me know.
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  14. #14
    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
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    Default drain

    There is absolutely no way to look at the pipes and tell you which is the tub drain location. You have to cut the caps off, pour water down the pipes, then look down them to see which one has water at the bottom, which will be the trap. The one at the right should be the trap but only the installing plumber knows for sure, assuming he even remembers.

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