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Thread: Need soft water

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  1. #1

    Default Need soft water

    My husband and I just moved into a new house with a well (our first) and are having issues with the water. There are spots everywhere no matter how much I clean and it has a smell rotten eggs (been told this is sulfer). We have had a softner in the past (Sears) but have heard from neighbors they don't last on this water. We had 3 different companies test the water with 3 different results. Seems the water is between 45-55 grains. We don't have the means to spend $3000.00-$5000.00 to clean up our water. What can we do to clean our water without breaking the bank. Thanks.

  2. #2
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cvalko View Post
    My husband and I just moved into a new house with a well (our first) and are having issues with the water. There are spots everywhere no matter how much I clean and it has a smell rotten eggs (been told this is sulfer). We have had a softner in the past (Sears) but have heard from neighbors they don't last on this water. We had 3 different companies test the water with 3 different results. Seems the water is between 45-55 grains. We don't have the means to spend $3000.00-$5000.00 to clean up our water. What can we do to clean our water without breaking the bank. Thanks.
    Sears, GE at Home Depot, Whirlpool at Lowe's etc. don't last but 2-4 yrs on most waters and is what my good friend and colleague Andy, our resident Kinetico salesman means when he says "cheap".

    You need to post your water test results and should mention companies and your thoughts about each and what they proposed.

    IF you want to be a DIYer, you should buy online from me or someone else and install it yourself or hire a plumber to install it for you. You'll save up to a couple thousand dollars and have top quality equipment.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  3. #3
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy CWS View Post
    http://www.ohiopurewaterco.com/shop/customer/home.php
    This company offers all your needs and will offer direct assistance in installation and set up. I have never used it myself, but I have spoken with those who have and are satisfied.

    Have you consider a drinking water system?

    Anduy Christensen, CWSW
    Andy, I'm sure you dont' know this or you wouldn't associate yourself with that web site. Those guys, except for a poor chart, they don't help the person size the softener. They don't give their Clack customer the Master programming instructions until AFTER the person has bought the softener!!

    And then, they only give them the data IF the person calls them when he/she is at the softener, and they answer the phone; probably during business hours only!!

    I think that is terrible service before and AFTER the sale, don't you? I'm sure you Kinetico guys don't do things like that. Here's a current copy of what they tell their Clack WS-1 customer; it's from their instructions and different from what they used to say just a couple weelk ago. They said they had no obligation to tell the customer anything about the master/dealer part of the programming.

    Here it is:
    We recommend that the customer call us on our Toll Free number 888-644-6426, so we can go over the master programming for your unit with you, while you are standing in front of the valve, to make certain the valve is set up correctly for your home water conditions.

    This is what they used to say:
    http://www.ohiopurewaterco.com/shop/...infomaster.pdf
    Our obligation to all our customers who purchase the Clack WS1 system from
    our company, is to assist them with the programming information that is
    available to the home owner on the “General Operation” leaflet supplied with
    your Clack Valve. (See Leaflet Link Shown Above)

    We are not obligated to address any additional programming tutorials with any customer, that may be available on the Clack WS1 valve.

    You do not need to backwash your new unit, as the media is brand new, and will be removing the dissolved minerals, tastes or odors from your water immediately…!
    ****************

    I size every softener I sell before the person buys it and I give the customer all programing info before the softener arrives.
    Last edited by Gary Slusser; 06-19-2009 at 08:10 PM.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  4. #4

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    Thanks for the reply. As I stated before, the hardness was between 45 and 55. There is a smell in the water but it seems to be on the hot side only.

  5. #5
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    The Fleck 5600 spec sheet shows any of its versions is not to be used on a softener larger than a 2.0 cuft 12" diameter tank. With up to 55 gpg of hardness, not counting any iron or manganese, a 2.0 cuft softener is way undersized for even a 2 person household UNLESS you want very poor salt efficiency and to have to regenerate it every two to three days.

    Andy, can you be more specific when you say things so others, including me don't have to guess at your meaning? Doesn't cheap usually refer to poor quality? To me and most people, it does. Or do you mean 'lower priced' softeners are price wise cheaper than your way overpriced nonelectric and otherwise featureless Kinetico?

    You know I'm not Certified and you call me unprofessional, yet again, here you go expecting me to be professional... DUH!

    As the wordsmith I know you to be, howsabout you type exactly and clearly, exactly what you mean to say and have others understand you to mean? Nail it down so there is no way anyone, especially me, can misquote you or misunderstand, or think you meant to say something else? And recall what Terry, the owner of the forum, told you about your complaints of me in the past; although you aren't including 'verbal assault', or 'derogative comments and aggressive behavior' now. Here's a copy.

    Quote:
    I am not sure what is happening here but I am being verbally assaulted by Gary Slusser. I am trying to get to the bottom of patrick88's problem and Gary continues to assail my inquiries with a derogative comments and aggressive behavior.

    I am doing my best to ignore such abuse and I am counting on you to moderate and mediate...as is what I feel is prudent and proper.
    Please respond here if you would.
    Thank you,
    Andy


    Andy,
    You may be a little too sensitive to be here.
    .....

    So far, I haven't seen anything out of the ordinary here.
    Terry Love
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  6. #6
    Master Plumber Dunbar Plumbing's Avatar
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    Exclamation

    Just to throw a plumber's perspective into this mix...



    Those big box store water softeners like waterboss, kenmore, and the other ones have their place in the industry for one reason, cost.

    There's two types of buyers to the mentality of product.


    The educated buyer that knows the chemistry of the water and all the intricate knowledge to "build" a water softener that perfects the water quality issue...

    and then there is the "buy a softener put it in" attitude.

    The second buyer is growing in leaps and bounds because the ranges in costs these days go from $350-$899 on one of these softeners found in the affordable category.

    Customers are neighbors, neighbors follow the thinking of their friends. In the DIY world these days it seems to me that with some instruction it's feasible to understand the basic schematics of the installation, not the operation of a water softener and what it offers.

    Add salt, tweak the settings and keep salt in it. <<< Seems to the be the attitude of most of my customers.

    The "average" I've seen with these low end softeners are in the 7-10 year range, and some manage to get to around 12-14 years. Rare when it reaches the double digits but they've managed that at times.

    The reason the WaterBoss is doing so well these days is their customer service, their "touch and feel it" product at the big box stores and their reputation through the years of supplying product and handling whatever small issues crop up from the DIY/plumber installing their product.

    I personally and truely believe that people don't mind paying the lower amount, installing it and getting that many years out of the product, and then not bothering to repair it when it gets above 7/8 years.

    Why? Because if you divide the number of years against how long they got reliable service out of it, an average of the unit costing less than a $100 can be cross referenced to other products used in the home, like a water heater.

    Start adding what it costs for the two trips it's going to take the plumber or the water softener guy to work/repair the unit...and now you're wondering if something else is going to break minutes/days/weeks/months later, knowing it's getting old.

    That rebuy almost puts to mind better economical sense because you know the first 12-18 months are under warranty and who knows! The "new and improved" might make that water feel even better than your old one.

    I find the above mentality playing out a lot. A doctor I worked for recently had a 12 year GE softener and all I did was add salt, made sure the operation of the unit was doing what it was supposed to be doing. Changed a setting or two because they complained about the water not being soft enough before it stopped working.

    The doctor's attitude is to replace it with a similar product, priced under a grand for sure and go with the attitude that the number of years in service is a predictor of sorts to the reliability of normal buying.

    Now I know that these professional softener systems provide substantially better water quality, but the big box stores are a force to be reckoned with because if the neighbor across the street has the same soft water as your neighbor two cities away, and they all bought their product at the local stores...

    I don't think they'd lie and tell otherwise.

    I try to offer better products and explain them out to people, sometimes they just interrupt me and tell me they don't care; just put the **** in and go with it. It's plumbing.

    Simplicity can be king at times in the mechanics of a home and its workings.
    Read what the end of this sentence means.

  7. #7

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    Gary, How do you determine what size I need? We have 2 adults and 1 small child. What system would recommend? The house is 2100 sq ft.

  8. #8
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cvalko View Post
    Gary, How do you determine what size I need? We have 2 adults and 1 small child. What system would recommend? The house is 2100 sq ft.
    To correctly size a softener you have to know how much hardness, iron and manganese if any is in the water, and the pH if you have your own well. If you are on city water, just the hardness, and you can get that from the water company's web site and their Water Quality Report.

    Then we take the number of people and bathrooms and the type of fixtures in them and determine your peak demand flow rate gpm. Then we come up with the volume of resin to provide the constant SFR flow rate required for the peak demand and then figure the K of capacity required and the salt dose required for the cuft of resin's best salt efficiency. Of course we need to talk to do all that. You can read all about all that here.

    I would use the Clack WS-1 control valve on the softener and the delivered price of the average softener I sell is under $700 but it depends on the size of the softener.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  9. #9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Slusser View Post
    The Fleck 5600 spec sheet shows any of its versions is not to be used on a softener larger than a 2.0 cuft 12" diameter tank. With up to 55 gpg of hardness, not counting any iron or manganese, a 2.0 cuft softener is way undersized for even a 2 person household UNLESS you want very poor salt efficiency and to have to regenerate it every two to three days.

    Andy, can you be more specific when you say things so others, including me don't have to guess at your meaning? Doesn't cheap usually refer to poor quality? To me and most people, it does. Or do you mean 'lower priced' softeners are price wise cheaper than your way overpriced nonelectric and otherwise featureless Kinetico?

    You know I'm not Certified and you call me unprofessional, yet again, here you go expecting me to be professional... DUH!

    As the wordsmith I know you to be, howsabout you type exactly and clearly, exactly what you mean to say and have others understand you to mean? Nail it down so there is no way anyone, especially me, can misquote you or misunderstand, or think you meant to say something else? And recall what Terry, the owner of the forum, told you about your complaints of me in the past; although you aren't including 'verbal assault', or 'derogative comments and aggressive behavior' now. Here's a copy.

    Quote:
    I am not sure what is happening here but I am being verbally assaulted by Gary Slusser. I am trying to get to the bottom of patrick88's problem and Gary continues to assail my inquiries with a derogative comments and aggressive behavior.

    I am doing my best to ignore such abuse and I am counting on you to moderate and mediate...as is what I feel is prudent and proper.
    Please respond here if you would.
    Thank you,
    Andy


    Andy,
    You may be a little too sensitive to be here.
    .....

    So far, I haven't seen anything out of the ordinary here.
    Terry Love
    ....................

  10. #10

    Default

    Sammy,

    How is making you a mod going to cure the problem? I have read the well forum posts.

  11. #11

    Default

    Sammy,

    You simply don't take the time or to really breathe to read any posts even mine. You act. I advise you to do this for your own good before you have a nervous breakdown over this MOD thing...

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