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Thread: Single Valve Tub Fauce Broken Stem Adventure

  1. #1

    Default Single Valve Tub Fauce Broken Stem Adventure

    Hi there. In this economy, we are renting our former primary residence. Was in the middle of turning the home and noticed the tub fauce in one bathroom wasn't working. Upon investigation, the supply was off. When I turned it on, I saw why: the faucet was leaking. So I turned the water back off, pulled the handle, plate and goodies to get down to the cartridge. At that point, I swore extensively. The renter tried to fix this themselves. They wrenched on the plastic part of the cartridge and it is quite chewed. They also (and this is the great part) snapped the stem off. Yes, I know. The home is 100+ years old. No access to replace the valve without cutting into priceless subway tile which is not only on the surround of the tub, but the walls and the floors. Which basically means, I cannot cut into the tile, enlarge the access and replace the valve.

    Is there anyway to get the stem and cartridge out of there? I have been searching around and have seen a potential solution of taping the cartridge and inserting a 1/2 bolt to try and get the cartridge out.

    PS, the cartridge is not moving (spinning) at all...

  2. #2
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    There are probably thousands of different models out there...without something to tell what you have, any advice would be generic at best. A picture might help, and if you actually know the model, maybe as good.

    Worse comes to worse, they make remodel plates that are large enough to cut out the tile, replace the valve, then install the repair plate. Often, the factory bezel then fits over the middle of the repair plate. If the old valve doesn't have the currently mandated anti-scald features, for a rental, it would probably be worth replacing.

    Last edited by Terry; 09-19-2009 at 11:47 AM.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  3. #3

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    Generic advice is good! Does have anti-scald. Really do not want to replace the valve. Did I mention that? Got it to spin a bit after using wd-40.

    Looked around in the crawl space and found the part of the stem they broke sitting on a ledge. No markings for who made it.

    Pic attached.

    Quote Originally Posted by jadnashua View Post
    There are probably thousands of different models out there...without something to tell what you have, any advice would be generic at best. A picture might help, and if you actually know the model, maybe as good.

    Worse comes to worse, they make remodel plates that are large enough to cut out the tile, replace the valve, then install the repair plate. Often, the factory bezel then fits over the middle of the repair plate. If the old valve doesn't have the currently mandated anti-scald features, for a rental, it would probably be worth replacing.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  4. #4

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    Did some digging and I think I found the manual left from the previous owner. Moen model 82339 also has CT-580 on the top right corner of the manual.

  5. #5
    Plumber krow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirscottyog View Post
    No markings for who made it.

    Pic attached.
    Moen ......, positemp

    Last edited by Terry; 06-13-2009 at 06:17 PM.

  6. #6
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    There are a lot of horror stories about people having trouble removing the cartridge from those valves. In it's current state, I'm not sure any of the pullers designed for this will work. Maybe Dremmel tool and some judicious cutting. Or, maybe drilling and tapping the center, then using a bolt threaded in there. See what the pros have to say.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  7. #7

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    I'm leaning toward drilling/tapping and bolting. I can grab the lip of the plastic and apply enough force to wiggle left/right and then try to pull. It isn't budging when I pull. If I wanted to put the clip in, I could. It isn't moving out at all. I'm afraid to keep pulling as I will just rip the pipes out (which of course aren't blocked in and secured tight.

    I am thinking after letting it sit overnight with some more wd40 and then adding some leverage with the bolt, I may be able to work it out of there.

  8. #8
    Master Plumber master plumber mark's Avatar
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    Talking that will come out...you will win---eventually

    those can be extra , extra mean to get out....

    I have written up the instrustions here before....

    what you have is going to have to be drilled out
    without getting into the brass on the sides...

    if you can get a nice pair of vice grips to grab that
    brass stem, you might be able to pull it out with
    leverage..

    make a series of drill holes through the plastic then


    MELT IT OUT....
    get a screwdriver you dont liek anymore and heat it up with a propane torch till the tip is bright red, then slice through the plastic like butter

    eventually you will win..

    have fun

  9. #9

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    Starting drilling into the stem. I gradually increased drill bits until I got to one about as big as the stem. Suddenly the stem started spinning on with the drill. I switched to low speed and gentle started pulling and.... the MF'er is out! I am envisioning that is what labor is like but will refrain from making that comparison to my wife.


    The plastic is all black and there is a ton of crap on it. So it's going to have to be replaced. Wheat do I replace it with? Something which does not present a repeat of this fun experience would be great!!

    I stopped at HD this morning and their replacement catalog is based on length. I can't really determine that because the stem is broke off.

  10. #10

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    Well, upon further inspection, there is rubber sticking out of the hot and cold sides of the valve. Does this mean my valve is shot? I am not sure if the gskets came from the cartridge or inside the valve (pardon my ignorance).

    Also, I knicked the side of the inside of the valve with a drill bit when I was trying to dig out the plastic. I know. Not smart. There is about a 1 inch gouge in the inside of the valve. Does that mean it's shot??

  11. #11

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    Got the rubber gasket out. Flushed the valve. Here are some pictures of the gouge...

    Not the best pics, but the best I could do.
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  12. #12
    Plumber krow's Avatar
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    In my area, HD will replace the posi-temp for free as long as you give them the old one for exchange............. even if its in a million pieces. Try that first.

    If that fails, call Moen (I'm sure the number will be posted ) and explain to them that the cartridge/stem broke inside the valve. They would normally send you a new one within 3 working days............... for free.

    Moen positemp part #1222
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    Last edited by Terry; 06-14-2009 at 01:38 PM.

  13. #13
    Master Plumber Redwood's Avatar
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    With those gouges looks like you'll be replacing the valve...

  14. #14
    Master Plumber master plumber mark's Avatar
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    Talking needle nose pliers

    you got to get intothe faucet and get out all that
    beat up rubber that is stuck inside it....

    I have had it actually crammed up into both the hot and cold inlets of that cam....

    if you clean out all the crap then maybe turn in on and blow it out with water pressure you will probably win


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