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Thread: Kinetico softener head rebuild with pics

  1. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Slusser View Post
    Yes resin can get up in the head when the tank is laid down flat, or dropped. So you probably have resin in the head causing a blockage of something.
    Resin cannot get up into the valve if laid down on it side. Those who understand how a Kinetico works wouldn't make this statement. It is like saying if you change the number of people using water, you would have to change the metering disc.

  2. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by mialynette2003 View Post
    The check balls are located between the level 5 and the main base. There are 2 towers in the main base that the check balls sit on. On the level 5, it houses the check ball seals. In later models, the check balls were replace with what looks to as a very small lawn dart.
    Actually the yellow pins were an earlier feature. All Kineticos needing a brine draw will use the check balls.

  3. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Slusser View Post
    Loose plastic parts in a Kinetico valve is a bad thing and would mean you need a new whatever it is.
    Needing a new "whatever it is" is inconclusive. Still waiting for it to be identified.

  4. #64

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    Either the balls fell on the floor or somewhere near by when it was disassembled or not replaced the last time it re-assembled.

  5. #65
    Water systems designer, R&D ditttohead's Avatar
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    Water Solutions, thanks for the great information, I have not had many chances to work on Kineticos, but I have always admired their strong, simple design. Your replies have been extremely helpful in continuing to grow the industries knowledge of this exceptional system. In the light commercial field, a particular Kinetico dealer in the Los Angeles area was always a thorn in our side due to their staffs knowledge of commercial applications, and their high quality equipment. It was at least as good as the 9000 valve, and they were our only competition. Keep the information coming, the people who actually work in the field or have a desire to grow their knowledge truly appreciate it.

    Thanks!

  6. #66
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by water solutions View Post
    Needing a new "whatever it is" is inconclusive. Still waiting for it to be identified.
    In this case whatever it is is the lost balls, that's assuming you as a Kinetico salesman know what you're talking about.

    Now why don't you answer his questions as to where he can get parts etc., or do you have more silly questions to ask him as you have the other 3-4 people that have posted in this thread with a Kinetico that didn't work?

    Also, enlighten us oh great Kinetico salesman, what keeps resin from going up into the inlet if the tank is laid down, or as you said, turned upside down?

    I see your good buddy is kissing up. Makes one wonder what happened in Vegas.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  7. #67
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ditttohead View Post
    Water Solutions, thanks for the great information, Your replies have been extremely helpful in continuing to grow the industries knowledge of this exceptional system. Keep the information coming, the people who actually work in the field or have a desire to grow their knowledge truly appreciate it.

    Thanks!
    LOL you've got to be kidding!! Or just getting home from a night out consuming adult beverages.

    The people that posted here with Kinetico softeners that aren't working may not agree with your assessment of Water Solutions being helpful but...

    What does his information do for you or other dealers/service people except show them that Kinetico is not repairable by them without them being able to get parts?

    And what does that have to do with helping the owners of a Kinetico softener in this thread that aren't working?
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  8. #68
    Water systems designer, R&D ditttohead's Avatar
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    I will kindly ask that you refrain from unfounded personal attacks. This request will not be repeated.

  9. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by dano1001 View Post
    completely tore apart the control head, found two pieces of debris, one plastic chunk partially blocking an orifice, and one chunk of scale like material. I am not very confident that this caused anything. I slapped it back together , leak checked good, and I will test the water tomorrow. Maybe I have the plumbing routed wrong (black pvc tubung), I dont know. I will look at the float assy and hoses next. I have more pictures of everything I tore apart if anyone is interestedAttachment 14908
    Attachment 14908
    This is NOT a Kinetico water softener control valve Level 1. This must have been taken from another unit and adapted if used as a softener. So it looks like it had been previously taken apart and reassembled. I wonder what other parts are missing or out of place. I would say it is a filter unit and not a softener, therefor.....tah-da! No balls.

    Dittohead, thanks. One of the objectives in this fine forum is to help people and not try to win simply by shouting the loudest. At times I come across a topic with which I am not familiar, and I try to gain from others' experiences, such as yourself. Thanks. There are few things more ignorant that an educated person speaking on a topic about which he knows nothing. And, yes, a Kinetico softener will not only work upside down (although not recommended) but upside down AND under water--completely submerged. AND, you don't need to change the disc to adjust to varying number of users. I hope new members can weed out the facts from the fantasy and all the hidden agendum.

    Don't throw the wrench in the works simply because you can't work the wrench. ---grandpa

    Dano, if you need more specific data and parts, contact me via PM.
    Last edited by water solutions; 03-25-2012 at 06:27 AM.

  10. #70
    In the Trades Tom Sawyer's Avatar
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    There should be a sticky at the top here called "Stuff Gary does not like" then he could post his opinions one time and not have to constantly remind us all of his prejudices. It would be a pretty long list though. Terry may not have enough band width to accommodate it. LOL

    We all know that to some degree Kinetco equipment is frustrating because it's very difficult to get parts or information on their stuff. That's because Kinetco decided NOT to swim around in the DIY pool. Like it or not, like their decision or not Kinetco makes some top shelf stuff that works as advertised. No, the average homeowner can not fiddle around with it and yes, it can be expensive to maintain but that in no way devalues the product. Constantly bashing them is childish and smacks of "sour grapes" BTW, the same can be said for Culligan equipment. The argument is silly. It would be like going around bashing Ferrari's because they are expensive, difficult to work on and the parts cost an arm and a leg.
    [B]No, plumbing ain't rocket science. Unlike rocket science, plumbing requires a license[B]

  11. #71
    DIY Senior Member mialynette2003's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by water solutions View Post
    Actually the yellow pins were an earlier feature. All Kineticos needing a brine draw will use the check balls.
    Andy, I went on a service call last year and the customer had what I referred to as a newer model Kinetico (the bolts holding the valve together were recessed into the level 1). That's when I found the dart looking seals which was on a softener. Is it possible Kinetico changed to the pins instead of the check balls? That's what I assumed when I saw them. I don't get a chance to work on Kineticos very often so that is why I said about the "darts".

    I'm still waiting for Gary to explain what adjustment would have to be made on a Kinetico when the amount of family members change. LOL
    Last edited by mialynette2003; 03-25-2012 at 06:56 AM.

  12. #72

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    Sorry, I stand corrected. The check stems are in the newer MACH valves and various older models. These cannot be altered with check balls because the receptor ports are shaped different. I don't know when Kinetico made the switch but I can image out why. Thanks. I like these stems more because they stay in place better when working on the valve.

    Have you even taken apart the cap assembly with the pawls and discs?

  13. #73
    DIY Senior Member mialynette2003's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by water solutions View Post
    Sorry, I stand corrected. The check stems are in the newer MACH valves and various older models. These cannot be altered with check balls because the receptor ports are shaped different. I don't know when Kinetico made the switch but I can image out why. Thanks. I like these stems more because they stay in place better when working on the valve.

    Have you even taken apart the cap assembly with the pawls and discs?
    No. I only went into the body. I liked what I saw. Had to clean the venturi and drain flow control of debris (would not draw brine). Thanks for vast knowledge of the Kinetico valve and water treatment in general. It is always nice to have a proper debate with someone who will listen to others and "if" wrong, admit it. Thanks.

  14. #74
    Water systems designer, R&D ditttohead's Avatar
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    As a professional who enjoys learning about every aspect of this exciting and difficult field, I too am interested as to why the Kinetico is so different than every other twin alternating controller on the market, including the 9100, 9000, 9500, Clack Ws1EE w/ MAV, any system 7 configuration, etc. I program these twin alternating systems all the time and have never had to take into consideration the number of people in the household. What make the Kinetico so different?

    I have been reading through a lot of old posts on the Kinetic systems here, thanks for the excellent information you have shared. The valve has been evolving for years, and in my opinion, it is one of the best valves on the market. As I have said before, in the commercial field, the local Kinetico dealer gave us some serious competition.

  15. #75
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Ferrari makes most every part of their cars with the possible exception of the battery and tires. Maybe light bulbs and mufflers. And they are extremely high quality and very fast while being very compact. Not an easy thing to combine. They also take very good care of their customers no matter where in the world they are.

    On the other hand, you can see the pictures in this thread, Kinetico only makes the blow molded plastic control valve, the rubber like gaskets, the plastic cross over pipes (2, usually not over 18"+/- long), the blow molded plastic tank adapter for the second tank and the plastic blow molded by pass valve.

    They do not make the remaining 95+/-% of the softener; including the plastic resin, the plastic resin tanks, the plastic distributor tubes, the plastic bottom basket or any plastic top basket or the plastic salt tank and it's plastic lid, plastic brine well, plastic and foam float, plastic brine pickup tube etc. etc.. All those parts are the identical parts all independent dealers and proprietary equipment dealers sell.

    And I'm not so sure they actually blow mold anything, they may have Clack or someone else do their plastic molding for all I know. Clack is huge in blow molding all kinds of things for many companies on an international basis.

    So I ask you readers of this forum that come here for information, what justifies such high pricing for a Kinetico softener? I say it's the millions they pay for advertising and higher profit for their money driven dealers.

    Also, corporate Kinetico will not do business with any end user customer, and that includes providing any service manual, parts breakdown or parts etc.. Everything must go through the one any only local dealer unless there isn't one, and then they may provide the name of another dealer in an adjoining territory, that may or may not help or want to service the equipment, or will charge a lot more due to the distance.

    Kinetico softeners set the gallons/frequency of regeneration with a disc. Last I knew there are 6 discs. In another thread in this forum recently there was a guy that had bought a house with a Kinetico softener in it and the seller wanted $1000 to leave the softener there. The buyer wanted advice as to what to do about buying the softener. The seller had a family of 8 living there and Andy, our resident Kinetico salesman (although just the other day he denied being Andy or a Kinetico salesman), asked the guy what number disc was in the control valve.

    I said the disc would probably have to be changed (adding to the $1000) because of the fewer number of people in the buyer's family and there probably would be a service call charge and a price for the disc. Andy et al say the number of people have nothing to do with a Kinetico softener...

    Of course Andy et al are saying I'm wrong etc. but, if the disc isn't changed, that means the softener will be regenerating twice as frequently for the new family of 4 than it was for the old family of 8.

    Andy et al must think picking at me is more important than giving honest advice here. I.E. he has made a comment that resin can not get into the Kinetico control valve even if the tank is turned upside down. I've asked him what prevents resin from going into the control valve inlet to the resin tank if upended and he won't answer that. Resin is very teeny tiny beads usually smaller than 1/16th inch in diameter.

    Also, I, many other dealers and dittohead! say that there is no advantage for most homeowners by having a twin tank type softener, evewn with soft water regeneration or upflow counter-current brining....

    Kinetico and their dealers and their sales force say everyone should have a twin tank Kinetico and run down all other types of softeners except when a prospective customer refuses to pay their high prices for one. Then many Kinetico dealers sell the same thing as independent dealers do.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

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