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Thread: Kinetico softener head rebuild with pics

  1. #76
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ditttohead View Post
    As a professional who enjoys learning about every aspect of this exciting and difficult field, I too am interested as to why the Kinetico is so different than every other twin alternating controller on the market, including the 9100, 9000, 9500, Clack Ws1EE w/ MAV, any system 7 configuration, etc. I program these twin alternating systems all the time and have never had to take into consideration the number of people in the household. What make the Kinetico so different?

    I have been reading through a lot of old posts on the Kinetic systems here, thanks for the excellent information you have shared. The valve has been evolving for years, and in my opinion, it is one of the best valves on the market. As I have said before, in the commercial field, the local Kinetico dealer gave us some serious competition.
    Based on your extensive experience with all control valves, what IYO are the not so good control valves still on the market today?
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  2. #77
    DIY Senior Member mialynette2003's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Slusser View Post
    Kinetico softeners set the gallons/frequency of regeneration with a disc. Last I knew there are 6 discs. In another thread in this forum recently there was a guy that had bought a house with a Kinetico softener in it and the seller wanted $1000 to leave the softener there. The buyer wanted advice as to what to do about buying the softener. The seller had a family of 8 living there and Andy, our resident Kinetico salesman (although just the other day he denied being Andy or a Kinetico salesman), asked the guy what number disc was in the control valve.

    I said the disc would probably have to be changed (adding to the $1000) because of the fewer number of people in the buyer's family and there probably would be a service call charge and a price for the disc. Andy et al say the number of people have nothing to do with a Kinetico softener...

    Of course Andy et al are saying I'm wrong etc. but, if the disc isn't changed, that means the softener will be regenerating twice as frequently for the new family of 4 than it was for the old family of 8.
    Making statements like this show your lack of knowledge of the Kinetico unit. It does not matter if 1 person or 10 people are in the family, the disc would be the same. And there are more discs than just 6. There are 8 unless Kinetico has increased the number since 1992 which I doubt. So instead of berating someone when you have little knowledge of the product they prefer, why don't you just sit back, listen and stop giving advise you are wrong about.
    Last edited by mialynette2003; 03-25-2012 at 11:26 AM.

  3. #78
    In the Trades Tom Sawyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Slusser View Post
    Ferrari makes most every part of their cars with the possible exception of the battery and tires. Maybe light bulbs and mufflers. And they are extremely high quality and very fast while being very compact. Not an easy thing to combine. They also take very good care of their customers no matter where in the world they are.

    On the other hand, you can see the pictures in this thread, Kinetico only makes the blow molded plastic control valve, the rubber like gaskets, the plastic cross over pipes (2, usually not over 18"+/- long), the blow molded plastic tank adapter for the second tank and the plastic blow molded by pass valve.

    They do not make the remaining 95+/-% of the softener; including the plastic resin, the plastic resin tanks, the plastic distributor tubes, the plastic bottom basket or any plastic top basket or the plastic salt tank and it's plastic lid, plastic brine well, plastic and foam float, plastic brine pickup tube etc. etc.. All those parts are the identical parts all independent dealers and proprietary equipment dealers sell.

    And I'm not so sure they actually blow mold anything, they may have Clack or someone else do their plastic molding for all I know. Clack is huge in blow molding all kinds of things for many companies on an international basis.

    So I ask you readers of this forum that come here for information, what justifies such high pricing for a Kinetico softener? I say it's the millions they pay for advertising and higher profit for their money driven dealers.

    Also, corporate Kinetico will not do business with any end user customer, and that includes providing any service manual, parts breakdown or parts etc.. Everything must go through the one any only local dealer unless there isn't one, and then they may provide the name of another dealer in an adjoining territory, that may or may not help or want to service the equipment, or will charge a lot more due to the distance.

    Kinetico softeners set the gallons/frequency of regeneration with a disc. Last I knew there are 6 discs. In another thread in this forum recently there was a guy that had bought a house with a Kinetico softener in it and the seller wanted $1000 to leave the softener there. The buyer wanted advice as to what to do about buying the softener. The seller had a family of 8 living there and Andy, our resident Kinetico salesman (although just the other day he denied being Andy or a Kinetico salesman), asked the guy what number disc was in the control valve.

    I said the disc would probably have to be changed (adding to the $1000) because of the fewer number of people in the buyer's family and there probably would be a service call charge and a price for the disc. Andy et al say the number of people have nothing to do with a Kinetico softener...

    Of course Andy et al are saying I'm wrong etc. but, if the disc isn't changed, that means the softener will be regenerating twice as frequently for the new family of 4 than it was for the old family of 8.

    Andy et al must think picking at me is more important than giving honest advice here. I.E. he has made a comment that resin can not get into the Kinetico control valve even if the tank is turned upside down. I've asked him what prevents resin from going into the control valve inlet to the resin tank if upended and he won't answer that. Resin is very teeny tiny beads usually smaller than 1/16th inch in diameter.

    Also, I, many other dealers and dittohead! say that there is no advantage for most homeowners by having a twin tank type softener, evewn with soft water regeneration or upflow counter-current brining....

    Kinetico and their dealers and their sales force say everyone should have a twin tank Kinetico and run down all other types of softeners except when a prospective customer refuses to pay their high prices for one. Then many Kinetico dealers sell the same thing as independent dealers do.

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  4. #79
    Water systems designer, R&D ditttohead's Avatar
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    A twin tank shoud never be used residentially??? Funny, I sell hundred a year for that application. I suppose they should not be used commercially either. Wow, the lack of real world applications and installations experience shines through sometimes. I guess the Kinetico should be fixed with Duct tape as well.

    Riddle me this, size a softener for this application. I will give you the answer to make it simple. A Kinetico or 9100SXT would be the right answer but...

    Real world application, not all that uncommon. Norco California, 80 Grains hardness, family of 8, regular size 2 bathroom house with 1" main line.

    Reminder, a single tank system needs to maintain efficiency, so it should not regenerate any more often than every 5-8 days.

    A little cheat that can be used, though its effectiveness is still up in the air, a variable brining system can also be used but these typically will regenerate with a little extra salt every time, and they will do a double salt regeneration every tenth regeneration. Efficiencies are no where near where they could be yet.

  5. #80
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Yes I was wrong about there being 6 discs, there are 8.

    I am right that the disc sets the number of gallons between regenerations. And the compensated hardness is used to determine what disc is used. If that changes more than 2-3 gpg, because of the hardness or iron changing, you need a different disc or you are going to get hardness through the softener. Kinetico used to have a float system in the salt tank that tabs or pieces were broken off to set the number of lbs of salt used, and if you needed to change the salt does you may need a new one.

    The formatting doesn't read well but I can't get it any better.

    Disc Selection
    (Compensated Hardness*)

    Setting Capacity Efficiency Dosing Meter Disc# 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
    ** 2.7 pounds 12481 gr. 4622 gr./lb. 3.9 lbs./ft³ 3 6 9 11 14 17 19 22
    4.0 pounds 15813 gr. 3953 gr./lb. 5.7 lbs./ft³ 4 7 11 15 18 21 25 28
    4.4 pounds 16630 gr. 3780 gr./lb. 6.3 lbs./ft³ 4 8 12 16 19 23 26 30

    Gallons/Regeneration: 3171 1586 1057 793 634 529 453 396

    **Settings certified by NSF and or WQA *Compensated hardness in gpg = Hardness + (3 x Fe in mg/l)
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  6. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Slusser View Post
    LOL you've got to be kidding!! Or just getting home from a night out consuming adult beverages.
    I am having a hard time understanding why Gary Slusser needs to make rude personal remarks about other members. I don't think personal attacks help anyone.

  7. #82

    Default Please help newbie - Kinetico 2100 FOD filter head!

    ***Starting new thread "Won't stop regenerating..." - please disregard this post. Excuse the confusion/difficulty - I'm obviously new to this!
    Please tell me if this isn't the place for my question, and where I should post it -
    Is it practical/easy to open the head and correct this? My Kinetico 2100 FOD dual tank filter won't stop regenerating. A rust film on the disk keeps me from seeing where the indicator is in the cycle. Push&Turn, I can feel minor clicks and the head switches to and from Regen and Purge but water never stops flowing water unless I bypass the filter system to cut off H2O pressure. Any help appreciated!***
    Last edited by IronManganeseNE; 01-17-2013 at 12:22 PM. Reason: Newbie error, posting to the wrong thread

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