No tax credit for tank HWH?

**larryleveen** · 06-07-2009, 12:53 AM

It appears as though there are no tax credits available for high efficiency tank HWHs:

http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?...tax_credits#c4

"Water Heaters Gas, Oil, Propane Water Heater Energy Factor >= 0.82
or a thermal efficiency of at least 90%. 30% of cost, up to $1,5002

All ENERGY STAR gas tankless water heaters will qualify.

There are currently no ENERGY STAR qualified gas storage tank or gas condensing water heaters that qualify."

Humph! Am I mistaken?

**jimbo** · 06-07-2009, 05:09 AM

Right now there is no tank water heater ( gas ) which comes close to the 0.82 energy factor needed for rebates. Things like the standing pilot and convection losses up the flue prevent that. Kind of like there will be no energy star stoves or clothes dryers. They are designed to do one thing...make things get hot, and you can't cut back much on that, unless you want raw chicken and wet clothes!

At some point, someone will offer a residential heater with fancier heat exchangers, flue dampers, and whatever else it takes to get the numbers up. But they will cost a lot!

Even a power vent today does not come close.

I am not a fan of tankless. Some love it. In my experience overseas, tankless were located right at the scene of the crime so to speak....a small unit literally IN the bathtub, right next to the washing machine , etc. This works well. We will probably see more of that in new construction going forward. As a retrofit, I see Clint Eastwood syndrome..." you gots to know the limitations!"

**SewerRatz** · 06-07-2009, 08:14 AM

Bradford White makes one that qualifies. EF-60T-125E-3N

AO.O Smith makes two GPHE-50 and the GDHE-50

**master plumber mark** · 06-07-2009, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by SewerRatz

Bradford White makes one that qualifies. EF-60T-125E-3N

AO.O Smith makes two GPHE-50 and the GDHE-50

No offence here, but you would have to be nuts to put in either of the products you have listed....

I would not install that Smith water heater with in anyones home...

as far as the normal units that give you a rebate,
in this area you get a 100 dollar rebate on the above .62 units...

with the rheem pro energy saving unit
you save a whopping 25 dollars a year

**jimbo** · 06-07-2009, 01:32 PM

I call technical foul! What is the price of those 100,00 + BTU commercial models!!!

**Ian Gills** · 06-07-2009, 01:39 PM

I call technical foul! What is the price of those 100,00 + BTU commercial models!!!

I don't care. I want a "hand hole cleanout" on my BW.

**SewerRatz** · 06-07-2009, 02:09 PM

Originally Posted by jimbo

I call technical foul! What is the price of those 100,00 + BTU commercial models!!!

The A O Smith units are residential units.

**jimbo** · 06-07-2009, 05:15 PM

Originally Posted by SewerRatz

The A O Smith units are residential units.

Yes, I posted a question or comment about those also, and I think I forgot to click "submit"!

The comment was....they seemed to meet the spec, so does anyone know why they would not be eligible for the tax credits??

**SewerRatz** · 06-07-2009, 05:22 PM

Originally Posted by jimbo

Yes, I posted a question or comment about those also, and I think I forgot to click "submit"!

The comment was....they seemed to meet the spec, so does anyone know why they would not be eligible for the tax credits??

They are eligible for the tax credits was my point. Even their website will tell you they meet the standards for the tax credits.

**SewerRatz** · 06-07-2009, 05:25 PM

Originally Posted by master plumber mark

No offence here, but you would have to be nuts to put in either of the products you have listed....

I would not install that Smith water heater with in anyones home...

as far as the normal units that give you a rebate,
in this area you get a 100 dollar rebate on the above .62 units...

with the rheem pro energy saving unit
you save a whopping 25 dollars a year

Oh come on Master Plumber Mark. These units are not as bad as the other power vents they made. They took the original state design in this case and changed the colors to yellow and tagged it as an A O Smith.

On the note of you hating A O Smith, I had a home owner hire me to install a sears Kenmore water heater for him. It was dead on like the State/ AO Smith atmospheric vent unit. I warned him to keep that room good and clean. Or he will have issues with the pilot.

**master plumber mark** · 06-07-2009, 05:31 PM

Originally Posted by SewerRatz

Oh come on Master Plumber Mark. These units are not as bad as the other power vents they made. They took the original state design in this case and changed the colors to yellow and tagged it as an A O Smith.

On the note of you hating A O Smith, I had a home owner hire me to install a sears Kenmore water heater for him. It was dead on like the State/ AO Smith atmospheric vent unit. I warned him to keep that room good and clean. Or he will have issues with the pilot.

the confidence you project when you say that their new units are "not as bad" as their older versions..
fills me with something, but I am not sure what....

they sort of look like an ice cream machine, with the yellow cone on top... they really dont give me a good feeling

I will stick with bradford white...

**SewerRatz** · 06-07-2009, 05:33 PM

Originally Posted by master plumber mark

the confidence you project when you say that their new units are "not as bad" as their older versions..
fills me with something, but I am not sure what....

they sort of look like an ice cream machine, with the yellow cone on top... they really dont give me a good feeling

I will stick with bradford white...

One of these days I need to take you out for a beer... or maybe an Ice Cream.. lol

**master plumber mark** · 06-07-2009, 05:39 PM

Originally Posted by SewerRatz

One of these days I need to take you out for a beer... or maybe an Ice Cream.. lol

Beer and ice cream, I would rather have a
Guinnes Stout draught....they sort of have an ice cream taste to them....

as far as that Sears water heater, we are all going to have to be carrying a lot more repair parts ....

especially when they start to clog up from underneath...

I posted this Smith 09 dog that I jsut installed last week,,,, it actually has less and a crappier air intake than their original model back in 03...

I guess you have to look on the bright side,,,,

if they are too damn stupid to make a decent heater
no matter how much you beg them too.

its best to just have that
beer and go with the flow.....

Really its all good job security ......

**99k** · 06-07-2009, 06:12 PM

Originally Posted by master plumber mark

Beer and ice cream, I would rather have a
Guinnes Stout draught....they sort of have an ice cream taste to them....

as far as that Sears water heater, we are all going to have to be carrying a lot more repair parts ....

especially when they start to clog up from underneath...

I posted this Smith 09 dog that I jsut installed last week,,,, it actually has less and a crappier air intake than their original model back in 03...

I guess you have to look on the bright side,,,,

if they are too damn stupid to make a decent heater
no matter how much you beg them too.

its best to just have that
beer and go with the flow.....

Really its all good job security ......

How are you suppose to get at that once it is installed? That is criminal.

**master plumber mark** · 06-07-2009, 06:53 PM

Originally Posted by 99k

How are you suppose to get at that once it is installed? That is criminal.

what I have been doing is attempting to clean it
with a wet vak nozzel, and a high compression
hose.... you cant really see what you are doing

usually if the unit is still under the tank warranty,
I will give them a price to simply change the heater under warranty.....
its 100% better than messing with this junk,

the customer gets a brand new new heater.......

I get about $375-450 for my time....(job security)

and A.O. Smith gets what they deserve for
makeing such a piece of junk in the first place.....